UPDATE: Since this story first broke yesterday, new information has come to light. The story has been updated to reflect these new facts.
Sixty-five black and Hispanic kids (from kindergarten to seventh grade) from the Creative Steps Day Camp, a children’s camp in inner-city Philadelphia, were recently kicked out of The Valley Swim Club, a suburban swimming pool in Huntingdon Valley, and some are suggesting the reason was race. Alethea Wright, the leader of Creative Steps, told reporters the camp had paid over $1,900 to use the 110,000-gallon pool for ninety minutes every Monday for the duration of the summer. However, after the first Monday, the Valley Swim Club enacted an emergency board meeting to discuss the matter. Less than 24-hours after the meeting, Creative Steps was refunded their payment and banned from the property. No explanation was given.
According to reports, after the campers arrived at the pool, the other, mostly white, members (estimated at around two dozen) made for the exit and fast, leaving only three members left playing in the pool. Wright said, “The other members were taking their children out while our children were there swimming.” One of the campers, a young Dymire Baylor, also commented, saying, “I heard this lady, she was like, ‘Uh, what are all these black kids doing here?’ She’s like, ‘I’m scared they might do something to my child.” Two other campers reported strange comments, prompting one seven-year-old to ask, “Am I too black to go into the pool?”
According to John Duesler, the president of The Valley Swim Club, this was not a decision made based on race, but rather that he disliked the dynamics large groups brought to the pool. In a statement to reporters he said, “There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club.” He went on to mention that other groups had had their access denied as well. Although, no other names have been mentioned.
The Valley Swim Club is a private club, so they can deny access without reason. However, they advertise open membership, and if they are kicking these kids out due to race, that’s a big deal. Especially as it is illegal to discriminate by race, even for private businesses.
Currently, several parents involved with Creative Steps are looking into what legal options they have, although, so far no legal actions have been filed. Also responding to the story is U.S. Senator Arlen Specter who has promised to look into the matter further and act if necessary.
As of yet, Duesler has not returned any phone calls and the voice mail for the club is full.
UPDATE TWO: Girard College has now offered the use of their outdoor pool to the Creative Steps campers for the rest of the summer.
UPDATE THREE: The Valley Club has now issued the following statement:
“The Valley Club is deeply troubled by the recent allegations of racism, which are completely untrue.
We had originally agreed to invite the camps to use our facility, knowing full well that the children from the camps were from multi-ethnic backgrounds. Unfortunately, we quickly learned that we underestimated the capacity of our facilities and realized that we could not accommodate the number of children from these camps. All funds were returned to the camps and we will re-evaluate the issue at a later date to determine whether it can be feasible in the future.
Our Valley Club deplores discrimination in any form, as is evidenced by our multi-ethnic and diverse membership. Whatever comments may or may not have been made by an individual member is an opinion not shared by The Valley Club Board.”
Comments
Drake
July 8th, 2009 - 12:42:35 PM
Wow, that's pretty bad. And blatant. Hope that club goes out of business. They deserve to.
Kristen
July 8th, 2009 - 12:49:54 PM
Take a look at the pictures on their web site: http://www.thevalleyclub.com/index.html Every single picture -- not a dark face to be found. I think it's pretty clear the "complexion" of the club that they were trying to maintain.
Fred McHonkey
July 8th, 2009 - 1:00:29 PM
This is outrageous. I'm a white man and this makes me so mad I want to drive over there and knock the fences down. Those kids are fine in the pool.
kelly
July 8th, 2009 - 1:10:01 PM
I've been to this pool, it's a really nice place, and they people that work there are generally friendly. I find this to be sort of unbelievable if it's true- perhaps they had one weirdo say something out of line? I understand if it's the large group thing, but then, why would they OK such a large group to begin with? Sad if it's true....
KikiA
July 8th, 2009 - 1:22:51 PM
This is not the whole story. How would you feel if you were taking your young children to a swim club and all of a sudden, 60 teenagers showed up wanting to get in the pool? This is not about race, other groups were denied as well, probably because they were also large groups of teenagers. Teens will be teens, but I can certainly understand why parents of young children might not be thrilled about groups of kids this big showing up when they're trying to have a quiet pool day with their little ones.
Repack Rider
July 8th, 2009 - 1:43:02 PM
I guess if you don't want a lot of kids showing up to your pool, you shouldn't take their money and tell them when to be there.
Alex
July 8th, 2009 - 1:49:48 PM
also, these were not teenagers, they were kids.
cheo
July 8th, 2009 - 1:54:26 PM
This is more than outrageous!! It is time we start protesting, marching, boycotting etc. What ever it takes to get our point across. It's getting worst America the racisum is at an all time high. First they want to take the pools from our children in our neighborhoods, now they want to forbid us from using any pools in their area. These are children we are talking about, who will forever remember this incident. This will play a major part on the rest of their lives, most children do not see in color unless they are tought to. We have a black/white president, how awesome is that. I want the president to hear about this situation, it time we go public with everything. Minorities are people with rights too, and it time we fight back. To all you parents who have small children (no matter what the color/race) this is your time to stand up for your children, your grandchildren and their children.
karvictho
July 8th, 2009 - 1:57:55 PM
The whole story "is" that the campers were sold a membership for their "camp group." This was "not" a large group of unruly teens. Nor were they turned away becuase they acted inappropriately. They were turned away according to the man running the club because the group changed "the complexion" of the club. What does that mean except there were too many blacks for the white club members liking. Also, the club's membership rules don't state it is against the club policy to splash or make appropriate swim related noises. Private clubs don't have the right to discriminate based on race, and this place is no exception. Discrimination is.... discrimination.
Luke
July 8th, 2009 - 1:59:55 PM
KiKiA, watch the video. These are young kids. Not some teenage hooligans.
sco
July 8th, 2009 - 2:07:57 PM
I think everyone is rushing to judgment too quickly. Yes it sounds bad but don't get angry until there are more reports. As far as I can tell, there is only one reporter on this thing so far. It is unfair to simply saw this is racist until proven so. IMO this is a poor report that trys hard to get people angry without much information, it is really better suited for Fox News other than the subject matter.
paul
July 8th, 2009 - 2:28:14 PM
sco, there is more than just one reporter. watch the video, there are a few there. then check the news sites, multiple newspapers are covering the story. it's not just one reporter.
Tom
July 8th, 2009 - 3:03:08 PM
Just follow the pool's rules. Apply for a membership. Problem solved.
stephen
July 8th, 2009 - 3:05:11 PM
except for when your membership is suddenly - and without reason - denied
cocoa
July 8th, 2009 - 3:18:30 PM
Kikia enjoys pandering to racist bigots. Offering all kinds of excuses for bigots.
Tom
July 8th, 2009 - 3:19:17 PM
Kristen, I did the same thing and looked at their website and saw the same thing, NO person of color..... The fat beer gut guy with the bad attitude and beating stick says it all. later that day after putting his hood on...........
Marisa
July 8th, 2009 - 3:20:01 PM
I think PRIVATE clubs should be able to cater to any class of people they want. Why should people spend $$$$ to join just to have to swim with the kind of people they joined to get away FROM? I sent a letter of support to the club. If I lived closer to them, I'd join.
Anonymous
July 8th, 2009 - 3:53:27 PM
HEY MARISA GOD CAN SEE THROUGH A WHITE SHEET.
girlatastartup
July 8th, 2009 - 3:56:51 PM
I'm originally from Philly and yes, its a racist city. That's why I escaped.
vito carisso
July 8th, 2009 - 5:34:29 PM
GET REAL... this was a whole ENTIRE summer CAMP FULL OF KIDS, who wanted (and admittedly paid) to use this pool as their 'CAMP' pool for the summer... The greedy club manager sold them access without CONSULTING the actual club members who are full time members.. This pool can comfortably hold MAYBE 30-40 people, providing their is NO GOOFING AROUND or Horseplay.. The black summer camp was SIXTY FIVE KIDS alone, before even ONE actual club members kid got into the pool. The club manager, who should be fired for selling a pool-only access to the facility to A ENTIRE SUMMER CAMP FULL OF KIDS, thus deprived the actual camp members of access to the facilites they bought memberships to use.. how is a club member supposed to get into the pool WITH 65 KIDS already spplahing around in pool that can hold approx 50 people TOPS, at one time?.. to try to turn this into racism is rediculous, as if this was a JACK AND JILL (black families only club) facility and the pool could only hold 50 kids, the actual jack and jill members would rightly BLOW THEIR TOPS at the management for leasing out access to massive groups of people not part of the actual club. Screaming 'racism' here is lame.. if 5-10 kids of any race showed up NO ONE WOULD HAVE CARED.. PUT 65 KIDS OF ANY RACE in a pool meant for no more than 50, and all the folks who already paid a $1000 aq family to use the join / use the facility are rightly mad NOT AT THE KIDS CAMP, but at the manager for trying to lease out the same facilities to two groups of paying members AT THE SAME TIME.. the kids got kicked out because all those 1000 dollar club memebers DO PLAN to use the pool this summer, and if you are going to let a ENTIRE SUMMMER CAMP FULL OF KIDS USE IT DAILY, for 1900 bucks, then you can give back the 1000 bucks to each family of four who also intended to use it.. the adults in charge of this camp ARE TO BLAME also, as turning this into a racial issue shows what they are really about. It does not take a genius to figure that if you are running a summer camp for kids, and 65 of them on your hands.. you cannot get exclusive access to a pool facility for only 1900 bucks, and all the other SMALL GROUPS of families who paid to sue it, NOT MONOPOLIZE IT AS A GROUP FACILITY, are not going to welcome you bringing 65 kids in every day at one time-- to figure that out, and realize that it is not a racial complaint does not take a genius, but it does TAKE COMMON SENSE, which the club and camp managers both seem to be missing...
Kate
July 8th, 2009 - 5:45:18 PM
keep in mind, it wasn't for unlimited access, it was for 90 minutes of access, once a week. but yeah, if the pool couldn't fit that many kids, then that's the fault of whoever sold the camp their passes. still, the story looks pretty ugly.
Pete Dwyer
July 8th, 2009 - 5:47:22 PM
Their info: The Valley Club Contact Directory Physical Address: 22 Tomlinson Road, Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006 Map to The Valley Club Mailing Address: P.O. Box 134, Huntingdon Valley, PA 19006 Club Phone Number: 215-947-0700 Club E-mail: info@thevalleyclub.com
Cara
July 8th, 2009 - 6:01:18 PM
If they paid for 90 minutes once a week they should get it. The rest of the members get it for the rest of the time. And if the pool will not hold both groups, then the camp gets the pool. It's once a week, for an hour and a half! I'm sure the pool closes for swim team events much more often than this!
girlatastartup
July 8th, 2009 - 6:02:20 PM
Like I said before, Philadelphia is a city that is very segregated. I grew up in the city of Philadelphia as well as in the suburbs near Huntington Valley. Incidents such as this were not unheard of and are probably getting more press because we have an African-American president. Though I was born in America, I remember not being given an application for a job at Abercrombie and Fitch at the King of Prussia Mall. (The largest mall in the Philadelphia area) They instead gave an application to my Caucasian friend. Point being... incidents like this happened all the time especially in and around the Philly area. Unfortunately I was a first-hand witness
whoever
July 8th, 2009 - 6:43:20 PM
SCO, there is PLENTY of information. Why are you so concerned about defending this guy and his club? And VITO CARRISSO: The president of the club said having those kids there would CHANGE THE COMPLEXION of the club. How do you find that anything but racist? Really-- I want to know how to put an innocent spin on it.
vito carisso
July 8th, 2009 - 6:59:31 PM
'CHANGE THE COMPLEXION' is a term that someone who is literate would understand as ''this is a small pool only suitable for small family groups, it cannot accomodate large groups'' if you are racist, or see racism around every corner, ''change the complexion'' CAN ONLY be someone who hates your skin color, as you do not understand that the term itself was used in England since the Tudors, and there were only white people there then.. the POOL CAN based on size, accomodate LEGALLY AND SAFELY 42 people - this camper group alone massively exceeds that number as their are 65 kids not counting adults.. also, NOTHING in any of the article says these kids are restricted to 90 minutes once a week, and if they DID pay 1900 bucks for that they would be crazy.. you could repeatedly take the ENTIRE CLASS to SixFlags or a major water park for less than 1900 bucks! There was no limit mentioned by anyone or restrictions on how often or what days this group could access this SMALL pool during the swin season.. this is an issue of a club manager trying to maximize profits in a reccession when a lot of families of 4 are probably NOT dropping their usual THOUSAND dollars for a pool club membership, and the club mamanger ALONG WITH the CAMP staff, knows full well that 65 kids cannot safely/legally use a pool rated for a MAX of 42 people.. this is being hyped and sold NOT BASED ON FACTS, AS THE FACTS show that this is a total nonsense story- you cant even fit this camper class ALONE in this pool, and everyone knows it. the 'caucasians' in the pool didnt all 'FLEE' from a bunch of african-american swimmers, they hopped out of the pool as a group of 65 kids were encouraged by adults to hop INTO a pool that was way too small for even the camper class- racism is not something I agree with, BUT screaming nonsense charges of racism, WITHOUT GETTING THE ACTUAL FACTS FIRST, from people who are intent on at the first chance making a racial complaint is a good way to outrage otherwise sympathetic people.
Michael Llaneza
July 8th, 2009 - 7:13:48 PM
Sure, it's a terrible thing, but in the first paragraph of the article... "Sixty kids... was kicked out..." It should be "was kicked out".
Anonymous
July 8th, 2009 - 7:21:30 PM
to vito carisso: They took the money. They scheduled for the 60 children to come. If the pool not being big enough was the reason, why didn't they site that reason? And I'm sorry but "change the complexion" is a really weird way to say "the pool isn't big enough". Maybe the manager lacks a grasp of English. I think you and Kikia are the ones writing your own version of the story. WRITE OR CALL TO EXPRESS YOUR DISCONTENT: www.thevalleyclub.com, Club Phone Number: 215-947-0700 Club E-mail:info@thevalleyclub.com
eve
July 8th, 2009 - 7:21:52 PM
to vito carisso: They took the money. They scheduled for the 60 children to come. If the pool not being big enough was the reason, why didn't they site that reason? And I'm sorry but "change the complexion" is a really weird way to say "the pool isn't big enough". Maybe the manager lacks a grasp of English. I think you and Kikia are the ones writing your own version of the story. WRITE OR CALL TO EXPRESS YOUR DISCONTENT: www.thevalleyclub.com, Club Phone Number: 215-947-0700 Club E-mail:info@thevalleyclub.com
vito carisso
July 8th, 2009 - 7:37:13 PM
EVE- the manager didnt CARE- NO ONE is defending him.. HE wanted the money- get it.. the PEOPLE WHO ARE CURRENT members cared after 65 kids and their adult supervisors jumped all at once into a pool that had a occupancy of 42... Now the article has labelled all these ''caucasians'' as we are RACISTS?.. FOR WHAT?.. telling the mgmt NO, you arent trying to keep the club afloat in a recession by letting 65 kids hit a pool that has a cap of 42?.. This racist anti-white article tries to sell that all the fearful caucasians FLED FROM THE BLACK CAMPERS.. 'as soon as they got in the pool''... the REALITY is they did not flee from 'black' campers or swimmers, they fled because the 65 kids all hoping into the pool at once caused dangerous overcrowding, that everyone could see. the article makes fun of a 'caucasian' mother for suggesting she was afraid the 65 campers in the pool would ''hurt her children'' BUT LEAVES OUT THAT THE POOL CAPACITY IS ONLY '42' PEOPLE!! There is no question that the kids in the pool, white or black, are in danger when you put 80-90 kids splashing around in a pool that has a CAPACITY OF 42!! THIS KIND OF GARBAGE is WHY people who are not inately racist BECOME RACIST and want nothing more to do with a group that automatically makes a racial issue out of something that can in seconds be largely disproven (the whites all 'fled' from the black campers ;[ ) The facility staff that cut the deal are bad and shouild face job consequences but not for racism, FOR INCOMPETENCE AND GREED, and the CAMP staff in my opinion are eagerly TRYING TO TURN THIS INTO A RACISM ISSUE,as they probably pfefer NOT to answer to the parents of these 65 KIDS THEY PUT IN DANGER by encouraging them all to hop into a massively overcapacity pool. I doubt the black summer camp will be able to get INSURANCE AGAIN if it is shown that they took their SIXTY-FIVE children on a field trip to a pool that could only hold FORTY-TWO kids.. that is 'on' the staff of BOTH the camp and Pool.. so NOW we get this phony,"OH,, THE RACISM WE SUFFERED.." TO TRY TO KEEP THEIR CAMPS INSURANCE and not anger all the parents of the 65 kids sent into this little pool.. you want answers lady.. theres your answers..
John Raines
July 8th, 2009 - 7:47:21 PM
You can't have that many underpriveleged kids at a pool regardless of color. My son went to an event at a camp with a bunch of public school kids of all races and all they did was beat up on each other and try to drown him. My son came home with a big red mark on his back. I will never let him deal with these losers again. No matter how much money I have to pay. FYI my son is black.
Peg
July 8th, 2009 - 8:21:29 PM
Fact: the club entered into an agreement to provide this club their pool for 90 min every Monday. Fact: after the first visit, they were told to leave. If it was about the number of children ( not teenagers) then the management should have said that. They chose to use the word complexion and used it in a media statement. Perhaps it was Freudian, but they did not say "we cannot handle the demands of 60 kids". There were things they could have done to accommodate this group- break it up in two groups, have them come more than one day, or simply tell the camp 60 was too many, but they did not do that. They told the camp they were dis-invited and did not give any reason, but told the media it was because it would change the "complexion" of the pool. Seriously, the fact that he used that particular word in this particular situation speaks volumes whether you want to hear it or not. This is a private club, but they offer open membership.
Kevin
July 8th, 2009 - 8:31:15 PM
just wondering, but where does the "pool can only hold 42 kids" statistic come from? i don't see that anywhere in this article, or any other article on the matter. sounds kinda suspect if you ask me...
Kyle
July 8th, 2009 - 9:02:20 PM
The average backyard swimming pool is 20,000 gallons and can comfortably hold 15 people. The Valley Swim Club pool on the other hand is 110,000 gallons, which is 5.5 times larger. 5.5 multiplied by 15 people = room for 82.5 people total in the pool. That means all 60 plus children (who are smaller) could easily fit in the pool, plus an extra 20+ of the other club members. And that's if they are all in the pool at the same time. Which they wouldn't be. The Valley Swim Club also features a smaller wading pool, full-service snack bar and a large children's playground. So there's plenty of room and other activities to be involved in. Pretending otherwise is just incorrect. Check it out for yourself: http://www.thevalleyclub.com/facilities.html
chris c
July 8th, 2009 - 9:44:21 PM
Kyle, I don't know the actual occupancy of the pool, but you can't just do a calculation based on volume because it does not take into consideration the depth. Unless you're okay with some kids having to stay under water the whole time.
Amari Lynn
July 9th, 2009 - 12:23:58 AM
I can't BELIEVE the direction in which this discussion is going! The size or capacity of the pool is a MUTE point. Vito, I'm sorry but you are clueless. Denial ain't just a river in Egypt. This was a racist act if there ever was one! And I'm sick and tired of people getting called on their racism and then twisting it around (or a racist sympathizer twisting it around) and making the person who called them out into the racist! Talk about game playing and messing with one's MIND! That mess is psychologically damaging! Vito, I have more respect for Marisa who just outright admitted to being a racist and said she wanted to join that club, then I do for you who refuses to admit it! You are looking for every excuse in the book that you can come up with to defend that place and declare that there was no racism involved. Why is it easier for you to call the club director greedy than it is for you to admit that he's a racist? And to try to debate the meaning of the word "complexion" ??? Used in England by the Tudors...you are full of it! And very disrespectful might I add (accusing someone of not knowing the English language). That hick didn't know anything about how the Tudors used the word complexion! In modern day America "complexion" means skin color! And Kyle got you on your lie about the pool being too small! I knew that was suspect. So what's really bothering you Vito cause you sound so defensive and angry. You were repeating yourself and ranting...WOW. Did this story hit a little too close to home or something? I wish I had a remedy for you. All I can do is implore you to read more, travel, get to know people who are different from yourself, and try to have an open mind. You sound like a relatively young person (under 40 is my guess, just from your writing style) so maybe there is hope for you to change. And one comment for John Raines: if you're Black then you are a selfish, sell-out, stereotyping snob! If you're not Black and you've somehow managed to get your paws on a Black child I hope CPS comes and removes him cause he'd be better off in the foster care system than with some sick-o like you!
Opio
July 9th, 2009 - 3:57:50 AM
vito carisso The person at the pool saying that these BLACK kids might hurt her kid is clearly racist to me... The complexion of the pool? - don't try to explain it away as some Tudor, etymological, semantic issue that the non-English majors can't understand... And don't try to say that this is the type of story that turns none racist into racist... You are who you are… Vito, you and others like you are racist and everyone knows it... You are just a coward trying to feign innocent... At least the manager admitted that he is racist and he must be fired... But don’t insult our intelligence with diversion tactics...
Sistah
July 9th, 2009 - 5:01:47 AM
@ Vito, Are you neighbors with the owner of the swim club? No, I get it - you were one of the parents, that made that outlandish statement? Oh, by the way - I saw you in another thread CONGRATULATING the swim club for getting rid of the COLOREDS. Way to go Vito!
Roxie
July 9th, 2009 - 5:35:17 AM
I think it's interesting that they dropped their website. Shame on them for scheduling something they couldn't handle. Especially shame on them for their pitiful attempt to explain why.
fishnchips
July 9th, 2009 - 5:38:39 AM
Isn't there a fire hydrant or two nearby the "day camp?"
Sessie
July 9th, 2009 - 5:47:00 AM
John Raines: Well, look at that, prejudice comes in all shapes and sizes, doesn't it. I live in a very comfortable suburb of Philly. There is a very poor community nearby. Those kids are bused to our high school pool for swimming once a week. And those (all black and Hispanic) kids are better behaved than any of the white ones from my town. I will say this- they are a bit noisier. But if you drop your towel, they jump out of the pool to pick it up for you. If they bump into you, you get a 5 minute apology. Poverty may breed many things. Bad manners and "beating each other up" aren't necessarily 2 of them.
Julieann
July 9th, 2009 - 5:49:32 AM
Vito, every time you try to defend your comments, you just drive yourself further into the hole. Notice that no one else is supporting your stance on this? And fishnchips, not funny. We're talking about some little kids, here, some 5 year olds, who are going to take this experience with them for the rest of their lives.
Amy
July 9th, 2009 - 6:02:48 AM
Adding 65 kids to a pool is too many no matter what the skin color. If they had wanted to swim they should have arranged to use the facilty during other hours where the numbers would be more managable for the lifeguards. That number of kids requires at least 3-4 guards just to keep them safe.
sco
July 9th, 2009 - 6:08:24 AM
Why does everyone just assume that the only thing the manager said was "the Complexion"? What else did he say, what was the whole comment, it is not printed now is it? Regardless of the actual facts, the news reports are slanted one way, always have been and always will be, it is important to get more information before making a judgment. Please post another link that has a first hand account of what happened, not just people citing the Philly NBC station report, because everyone seems to just be taking one sourse's word on what happened. I am not saying that the club was right and didn't decide based on race, but I can't believe how ignorant so many people are, to just jump to a conclusion that it is racist. I think that is just as bad as the racist comments that are being made by posters on so many boards.
ham
July 9th, 2009 - 6:23:33 AM
there will be a protest at this swim club at 10 am. show up and voice your concerns. do something
sco
July 9th, 2009 - 6:30:08 AM
Amari Lynn, nice reply you had "you are a selfish, sell-out, stereotyping snob! If you’re not Black and you’ve somehow managed to get your paws on a Black child I hope CPS comes and removes him cause he’d be better off in the foster care system than with some sick-o like you" What great compassion you have for other humans, or is it that you hate others who don't think like you? It is all the same, hate is hate people. Base it on looks or thoughts....it is just as bad IMO. So you go ahead and tear others down like that and then feel superior to them because you don't think that about other races.....what a fool you are, I pity you and others who have to put up with your fake "love" or others. I on the other hand hate all people equally, it is much easier and after reading many comments on this and other sites, I have little hope for mankind and would like to see us ll wiped off the face of this planet.
Amari Lynn
July 9th, 2009 - 7:02:52 AM
To Sco, Oh, that's RICH! Well, thanks for your honesty, "I on the other hand hate all people equally, it is much easier and after reading many comments on this and other sites, I have little hope for mankind and would like to see us ll wiped off the face of this planet." I hardly think someone with the kind of hate you have for everyone (including your own family and friends...that is if you have any) has any right to criticize me! If you can read you would see that what John wrote was VERY rude and condescending towards people who are inner-city, underprivaleged, or from "public school." He called the children "loosers" which is so unfair. Children can't help what socio-economic situation they are born into. I might have been harsh but he deserves it, especially being that he was so smugly trying to make the point that he felt the way he did because his "son" is Black. Amy, READ the article and you will see that the swim club agreed to let this quantity of children come. It was OK, until they saw them. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out what this is!
K Sloan Williams
July 9th, 2009 - 7:42:32 AM
To Vito: You put forth a well thought out argument, which I read and thought about with an open mind. I wonder if you can do the same for me. Here is my argument: I don't know if the actual intent of the club was racist. However, the perception is. The same perception would exist if this were a black jack and jill club and 60 white children were kicked out. The same perception would exist if this were a muslim club and 60 christian children were kicked out. We live in a society that claims to seek equality and while you may trace the etymology of the word "complexion" to England 500 years ago, this country has a recent history of segregation, especially in private clubs. The Club cancelled the camp's membership and refunded their money. That ACTION, coupled with the statements of director about changing the "complexion and atmosphere" gives rise to the inference that this was racially motivated. As others have pointed out, there were MANY other solutions if the Club's only concern was the size of the pool and the safety of the users. They could have limited the amount campers at one time; they could have split the groups such that other campers used the playground. They could have lessened the time and split it into two days. The Club had options. This is the one they chose and therefore, while I agree the media is apt to sensationalism, the facts support a charge of racism, not the imagination of "racism theorists" everywhere.
scribs
July 9th, 2009 - 9:05:00 AM
To all, I am a longtime and active member of the Valley Swim Club. From the time my family joined in 1995 I've seen other families come and go. However one thing I've noticed is the welcoming atmosphere of the club, which is why many families choose Valley over other local clubs such as Bustleton and Torresdale. For my family, what originally attracted us to the Valley Club was the small size, a true family environment. The Creative Steps Camp did alter that atmosphere slightly, but the number of kids was not the only issue. The camp was also a safety concern, being as we were not staffed to accomodate SAFELY such a large number. The Red Cross requires a 1:25, lifeguard to swimmers ratio, thus the camp alone would require 3 lifeguards on the stand, plus additional lifeguards for the members and and additional lifeguards to relieve the on-duty lifeguards (There is a 45 minute maximum time on stand without breaks). Also, the Creative Steps was not sold a membership. They were being rented the pool facility. However that does not garauntee them sole use of the facility for time rented. PLEASE, educate yourself on this issue before forming unjustified opinions. Because truly, the only people this hurts is the kids, ON BOTH SIDES.
sco
July 9th, 2009 - 9:20:52 AM
Amari Lynn, I love it…after questioning my ability to read, and then making fun of me having no family or friends, you retort that you are justified in your comments because John was VERY rude (capitalized to drive home the point, natch) and probably have no inkling of how rude your comments are!! But I guess you just can’t be that way to inner city unfortunates, huh? Everyone else is fair game for your brand of hate because they are smug and privilaged….. let me tell you, people who are victims or racism (which this may or may not be) don’t want your pity, they want to be treated with respect and equality…so if your rude, just be rude, don’t think the unfortunates need you to stick up for them just because they can’t do it themselves. But I am thinking you will have no idea what I am talking about so keep living in you fantasy land where you are the pretty princess who defends the wronged It is unlike me to call you a stupid cow that needs to be taken out and shot but if I were you, I would feel that I was justified to say so I am sure ; ) Your name wouldn’t happen to be Liz Becton would it? Awwww, c’mon, this is silly and out of hand, I am really working to get a rise out of you, hey? Just try and be civil and set an example if you want to make a point about treating people with respect. I simply made a comment that you disagree with and you get all bent out of shape.
sco
July 9th, 2009 - 9:26:24 AM
Whoever, there is one source on information…ONE…that is hardly “PLENTY” to make an informed opinion. That is how witch-hunts happen, remember McCarthyism? That was fair and worked out well, hey? Your question is quite scary in the tone it takes. Are you going to tell me I should be imprisoned because my views are different then yours? I should ask you, why you are so quick to condemn the person without all pertinent information? I choose to keep a level head before going out and accusing someone of something. I know this is the court of public opinion not the law but still, every person is entitled to be considered innocent until proven (not thought of as) guilty. Again, what was the whole comment he made? Where is it if it is so damning? Reporters, like many people are willing to twist the facts to get the story that they want and it is obvious that the angle here is that it was based on race and nothing more and many people have fallen into that without using their brains. Of course that just gets in the way of hating on someone without all the facts and goodness knows that can’t happen! Come on people…stop assuming…use your brains and dig for the truth, if it is racism…then it is wrong but if it is not, this club and the people who work there, own it and go there will be permanently damaged because of those who were quick to judge.
Jenna
July 9th, 2009 - 9:38:20 AM
So far it may be only one source/reporter (I haven't looked myself), but that's the way these local stories go. But what that one reporter did find certainly brought up some bigger questions (as evidenced by all these comments). So hopefully, if this story continues to gain traction, which unfortunately is not too likely, then more reporters will enter the picture bringing more truth to light and answering the questions we all have. So yes, as of now there may be only one reporter. But if we keep asking questions - which we should be doing - then hopefully more newspapers will find the value in the story and then they'll bring more coverage to it. Just my two cents.
AsAManThinketh
July 9th, 2009 - 10:01:15 AM
You know the funny part, Half of the racists here defending the actions of the Swim Club count themselves as Christians. These people will spend eternity in Hell. So please go...have a dip in the (whites-only) pool. While u still can. "On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you workers of lawlessness.’" (Matthew 7:22-23, ESV)
Amari Lynn
July 9th, 2009 - 10:14:38 AM
Sco, Bent out of shape hardly describes me! I'm sitting here laughing right now cause I think I finally get it. A lot of the people who come to these sites to post or blog are just straight out of their minds and like to have fun angering or inciting people via the internet, is that it? Some of the things you said are laughable and leave me to that only conclusion! But I'm not making a joke out of this. This was a serious story that as an African American mother I take VERY seriously. So I'll refrain from any further bantering back and forth. I will say in conclusion that you are the one who said that you want EVERYONE (including your family and friends) wiped of the face of the planet. I wasn't making fun of you for not having them, I only assumed that because why would you want them all dead? But it's OK, you don't have to get it. I was under the impression that people came here to voice their opinions about this story. Myself and others didn't agree with Vito's stance so adamantly defending the swim club and we have said as much. You're welcome to say whatever you like as well. Where it gets a little crazy is when you start putting your own ideas and judgements out there on who we (as in the commenters) are. You don't know me. You don't know what social class I'm from, you only know my race now because I mentioned it, you don't know what kind of person I am, how much education I have, whether I help those less fortunate, or how I show love and respect to others (even those who differ in opinion from me), you don't know any of that! I could be a psychopathic killer or a nun for all anyone knows! So don't start surpmising and putting your preconceived judgements on me cause it just starts to get silly and I just can't take you seriously.
Amari Lynn
July 9th, 2009 - 10:18:48 AM
Oh and one more thing (to Sco). Did you decide that I'm a princess because of the name? It's an alias FYI. It is very pretty and princessy, I'll admit that. :=) :=) :=)
Yale
July 9th, 2009 - 11:00:49 AM
Nobody wants to pay hefty fees to a private club and swim where 60 kids have been urinating. We have a black man in the White House. Time to get over the PC nonsense and stop demanding that some people be coddled because of the color of their skin.
Kristen
July 9th, 2009 - 11:04:12 AM
@Yale: But white kids pee in the pool, too.
sco
July 9th, 2009 - 11:16:15 AM
Direct quote "I hardly think someone with the kind of hate you have for everyone (including your own family and friends…that is if you have any) has any right to criticize me! If you can read..." And you are seriously going to pretend that you were not making fun of me and being condescending towards me??? Why would you even say these things then? Wow you are warped! OMG, then you tell me to not put “your own ideas and judgements out there on who we (as in the commenters) are”…. yet that is just what you have been doing. Just scroll up and read what you wrote. Like talking to a brick wall…. as you get all high and mighty…so go ahead and don’t respond because you can’t defend yourself… BTW, I did not think that you would use your real name (duh), I think you are a princess because you are acting like your sh** don’t stink…..when it would curl a pigs tail….. And I doubt you are black….as you said, how would I know…so go ahead and just say it because you can hope I will think what you say has any legitimacy (which it does not)… Just for fun…another quote from Amari Lynn “READ the article and you will see that the swim club agreed to let this quantity of children come. It was OK, until they saw them. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out what this is!” Nowhere in the article (unless I really can’t read) does it say that the club agreed to allow 60 plus kids in the pool, so we don’t know that they agreed to that number,…just sayin’. Also, poor reasoning methinks……you are reading between the lines and assuming racism…that is what I have a problem with. That reasoning would be the same as me saying that all the people who have fellated me are still alive…so my penis must keep people alive. (Kind of makes you think different about me hey?) Of course that is not a true statement. Correlation does not equal causation.
JMcLaney
July 9th, 2009 - 11:41:07 AM
@KikiA: I submit that your argument is absolutely invalid due to the fact that the Day Camp paid $1900 for the privilege of their Campers being allowed access to the pool for 90 minutes 1 day per week. They did not simply 'show up'. They were scheduled, by the Club, to be there at that time. The Club should have had the sense to close the pool to the members for that hour and a half because frankly, if I pay a reservation fee for something, I would certainly expect that my group would be the ONLY people there during my reserved time. Otherwise, why am I paying a fee at all?
JoeShmo
July 9th, 2009 - 11:45:52 AM
This is a simple business issue. Although these are estimated numbers you'll get the point - You have 250 members paying $250/each for the summer, and a group of 65 that pays $1900 for everyone. When overcrowding occurs, who is the first to go? Hmmm...real tough decision. "Bye- Bye" to the Group!! Has nothing to do with race...Meanwhile, people are trying to create a lynch mob for personal lawsuits, and the majority of people here are willing to hop on the bandwagon. Frankly, Its PATHETIC that people are attempting lawsuits to squeeze cash from a struggling business that was trying to accomodate the group.
tony
July 9th, 2009 - 11:52:10 AM
I think it is a sad and clear case of racism. Just as much as the Miss Black America competition is. Maybe some day Dr. Martin Luther King Jr.'s words will be realized when blacks are welcomed with open arms into the Valley Swim Club and Whites are welcomed with open arms to participate in the Miss Black America contest. Also the Valley Swim Club Site in currently down. They are probbaly tring to find pics of blacks to post on the site after so many pointing out the absence of them on there. The Miss Balck America site is however still up and running, inspite of the fact that there are no white faces on that site.
Anonymous
July 9th, 2009 - 11:57:03 AM
@Scribs: You said, "Also, the Creative Steps was not sold a membership. They were being rented the pool facility. However that does not garauntee them sole use of the facility for time rented." How does that not grant them sole access? If I 'rent' a banquet hall within a hotel for my wedding, other people who happen to be paying to stay at the hotel are not, by default, welcome to intrude on my rented time. I understand what you said about Lifeguards and safety completely. However, from everything I've heard and read, that reason has never been mentioned by the people in charge. There were numerous ways the Club could have handled this situation and been able to 'save face'. Unfortunately, the true colors of those in charge and apparently many of those that hold membership there have shown through very clearly. No matter how much lipstick you put on this pig, it's still a racist pig.
JimmyFL
July 9th, 2009 - 11:57:33 AM
It's abd enough be have to put up with BS in the public sector. Leave our private spots alone. They made the mistake of taking their money...hope they learned a lesson.
JMcLaney
July 9th, 2009 - 11:57:56 AM
@Scribs: You said, "Also, the Creative Steps was not sold a membership. They were being rented the pool facility. However that does not garauntee them sole use of the facility for time rented." How does that not grant them sole access? If I 'rent' a banquet hall within a hotel for my wedding, other people who happen to be paying to stay at the hotel are not, by default, welcome to intrude on my rented time. I understand what you said about Lifeguards and safety completely. However, from everything I've heard and read, that reason has never been mentioned by the people in charge. There were numerous ways the Club could have handled this situation and been able to 'save face'. Unfortunately, the true colors of those in charge and apparently many of those that hold membership there have shown through very clearly. No matter how much lipstick you put on this pig (the Club), it's still a racist pig. I was not calling Scribs a pig... just so everyone is clear...
JoeShmo
July 9th, 2009 - 12:05:39 PM
Also, point being - Its a sad day when reverse-racism takes hold. The individuals yelling the loudest are saying that the club is NOT ALLOWED to reject black individuals. Its funny...CNN interviewed a black member that says she loved the club, and goes regularly with her family. Anyhow, The next time a movie is sold out, Im going to sue them for rejecting me because I'm white. How much do you thing I can get....$1 Million? Cha-ching!!!!
Jason Diamond
July 9th, 2009 - 12:09:33 PM
It is their swim club. It is no ones business who they keep out and for what ever reason. It's private. It is called freedom. The swim club has the freedom to choose who they want in and the black kids have the choice to some other place. I do not hear anyone trying to bring a law suit against the Nile Swim Club. Why? It is because they are a black group and also it is their right to do so. Where is the rights of whites or any other race. I have not spent 15 years defending freedom to see rights taken from one group and given to another. It makes me sick. http://www.nileswimclub.com/
TheBrain4321
July 9th, 2009 - 12:11:09 PM
Amen Joe!!!! Finally some common sense, seems to be much needed.
Amari Lynn
July 9th, 2009 - 12:22:53 PM
Joe Shmo and the rest of you who think this issue is about the size of the group (60+ kids). YOU ARE RIGHT. It is insane to think that ANY club members who pay for membership at a private club wouldn't be upset about one day being inundated by 60+ kids who aren't members (even if they did pay $1900). I'll give you guys that. But the wording and innuendos in your comments that imply that this was the fault of the day camp (and the kids) are mind-boggling to me!!! Are you telling me that the day camp director wasn't with it enough to inform the swim club of how many children would be coming to swim? Are you telling me that the swim club director didn't bother to ask? I'm sorry but I'm certain that he knew they were all coming but he didn't know that they were black. And when he made the statement that he did, about all of the kids "changing the complexion...atmosphere of the club" it was as CLEAR as day! Had it really been about the quantity of the kids he would have said so...but nowhere does it say he did. If he was really as innocent as so many of you on here want to make him out to be, he would have apologized profusely, admitted to poor planning on his part, and perhaps offered some other type of resolution. But no, he basically told those kids, "don't let the door hit you on the way out!" Yes, Joe Shmo you're right. There is a black man in the White House. But that doesn't mean that racism is dead. I too am against the PC movement because nobody openly talks about race or race relations and I think it has convinced so many people that racism is dead or that it's a figment of trouble-making people's imagination. I don't think anyone's demanding that this swim club be PC and allow these kids to come back just because they're black. The wouldn't go back now anyway, they've been offered a much nicer swimming facility at a nearby private college. What people want is for the swim club to explain and justify their actions. If it was about the quantity of the kids, let them say so! If it was about race, let them say so! If an apology is due (which most people think is obvious) then one should be made. Sco, you are too angry for me and you completely lost me with that last paragraph. Now I feel nothing but pity for you. Why is it that you doubt that I'm Black? Because I write intelligently? Because I'm not splitting verbs and using slang (how you must assume that all black people write)? Well, whatever...think what you will. If I gave you my real name you could just google me and you'd know the truth. I'm actually the founder of an international African-American networking organization (specifics excluded for a reason) so if you googled me my picture would pop right up and you'd see. But that's OK. You don't sound stable so I'm not going to take any risks. I sincerely hope that you get the help you need. Have a nice life.
kyle
July 9th, 2009 - 12:24:23 PM
Let's be clear for a moment, because there are a lot of allegations being thrown around, some based on facts/reporting, some not. 1.) The Creative Steps Day Camp, obtained permission to rent the pool for 90 minutes every Monday afternoon at a cost of $1,900. 2.) When the sixty inner-city children showed up, other members left the pool, some making arguably racist comments 3.) Soon after, the group was told to leave by pool staff. 4.) The group was then refunded their money. 5.) The Swim Club's president then wrote in a statement: "There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club.” (Note: no mention of safety or space concerns) Not clear: 1.) What the terms of agreement for the rental were. (i.e. did the club know there would be sixty kids, etc.) 2.) Whether or not the pool was big enough to fit everyone safely. 3.) Whether or not there were enough lifeguards on duty. Which leaves me to conclude, those arguing that the Swim Club's actions might be racist, are basing their argument on the reporting. Those arguing otherwise, are basing their argument on hypotheticals (i.e. is the pool big enough, etc.). It might turn out the hypotheticals are true. But until another reporter goes in there and asks those questions, they are little more than hypotheticals. Guess work, that is. So until a new report comes out clearing things up, it seems like the facts line up with those arguing against the Valley Swim Club's actions.
sco'swife
July 9th, 2009 - 12:30:51 PM
Actually, Sco's penis does keep people alive. He has a beautiful wife (me) and an adoring son. He's a great dad and the thing we love most about him is his uncanny ability to think for himself. Truly not a lemming.
Virgoboy
July 9th, 2009 - 12:34:41 PM
I wish all thes epeopel saying we shouldnt jump to conclusions would just accept the reality even if the actual establishment wanst racist thier memebr sure were ..that woman didnt say ......where di all these KIDS come from she said where did all these BLACK KIDS come from...enough said!!!
Amari Lynn
July 9th, 2009 - 12:47:48 PM
Nile Swim Club is NOT an exclusive black club! I just called them and they were shocked to learn about this story and to hear that they are being referenced! And what does Miss Black America have to do with anything?! People need to study history and then they'd understand why Historically Black Colleges and Universities, Miss Black America, Jack and Jill and other entities that cator to the black population are in existence! What am I saying? History? Look at what just happened with the story we're talking about! If that day camp had been taking the kids to a black swim clubs this never would have happened and I wouldn't be sitting here waisting my valuable time trying to get thru to people who are never going to get it! Only racists throw around the term "reverse-racism" so freely. You're so afraid that one day we're going to do to you what for centuries you did (and are still doing to us). You're so afraid of loosing power. Wow! Nobody wants to take away your power or rights. We just want equal rights and equal treatment. There's no way in HELL this story would have went down the same way if it had been a bus full of 60+ white kids! No way!!! You are lying to yourself and dilusional if you think otherwise!
sco'swife
July 9th, 2009 - 12:49:42 PM
Guilty until proven innocent in the court of public opinion, eh? This same reporter also wrote a story stating that Jeff Goldblum died the same day as Farrah and MJ...so clearly, he's not very big into fact checking before publishing his stories.
chris
July 9th, 2009 - 1:03:08 PM
hi my name is chris i worked at the valley swim club for 5 years now. i seen many different races come throw that gate. and i dont like when people speak for me so i figured y not write to all of yous. i live in phily and love it my nabborhood consists of mix races and it has been for a while now.and that is why i love it yes i am white who cares we are all people the valley club moto is safty first then fun. the club has been going throw rought times. we dont have alot of money to run it. idk if its a law or not but for 1 lifegarde u are only aloud 25 kid.it would caust alot of money to pay for more gaurds that we do not have. i will be there tonight if any1 eles is going thats cool i am going to tell people that u can not let 1 person that had made a couple of misstakes mess everything up. and dont judge the club on the actions that had come from this. everyone is welcome and i mean every1. if u want to be a member come sigh up and ask for chris i hope u all dont hate the valley club u can hate the action that we have done. but the club is great.and please dont judge the book by its cover..we also dont judge,we love our communitive..and i cant spell so well thank you for lissoning
Amari Lynn
July 9th, 2009 - 1:11:53 PM
Sorry, it was Yale who said the thing about the black man in the White House and we should stop being PC. You guys have me ALL confused. To Sco's wife: I hate to be the one to tell you this but your husband wants you dead (as he put it, "wiped off the face of this planet"). His words, not mine...see his post from this morning, 6:30 a.m. Hence my harsh reaction to him.
sco'swife
July 9th, 2009 - 1:19:06 PM
Amari Lynn - I'm sorry my dear husband's analogy was too complex for you to understand. I'll try to dumb it down a bit for you so you can comprehend it...his point was that he doesn't hate one group of people more than another. His comment: "I on the other hand hate all people equally, it is much easier and after reading many comments on this and other sites, I have little hope for mankind and would like to see us ll wiped off the face of this planet." Was merely a testament to the fact that if people, such as yourself, are representative of what mankind has become, then we are doomed...clearly, you're supporting his argument.
Stephen Kral
July 9th, 2009 - 1:30:31 PM
"This same reporter also wrote a story stating that Jeff Goldblum died the same day as Farrah and MJ…so clearly, he’s not very big into fact checking before publishing his stories." @sco'swife: If you read the post, you'll notice that I never once claimed Jeff Goldblum to be dead. Rather I said that he was rumored to have died (which was true), but that the rumor was unsubstantiated and likely false. In fact, the third sentence in that story is: "As of yet, no other news source has picked up the story, so it’s probably false." Read it for yourself: http://www.manolith.com/2009/06/25/jeff-goldblum-too-another-rumored-death/
sco'swife
July 9th, 2009 - 1:36:30 PM
Stephen -- I actually did read it...but the fact that you reported on something that was merely rumor and heresay just demonstrates your lack of desire to investigate all of the facts before publishing a story. Perhaps, the desire to get the "scoop" overwhelmed your sensibilities as to what would be the more responsible thing to do.
JoeShmo
July 9th, 2009 - 1:44:43 PM
Okay - The race references need to stop. These are facts - (1) The pool can fit a certain # of people (2) It is more profitable to accomodate "members" (regardless of race) than groups - due to wholesale rates, etc. (3) The pool asked a "group" to leave. This is a $ issue that doesnt involve race at all. Given the facts, the manager overbooked the pool. This was a simple mistake and people want to crucify the manager over an overbooking that happens regularly at restaurants, movies, flights, banquet halls, theatres, etc. Everyone has experienced overcrowding, but who benefits in this situation? (1) FACT: The camp has found a new pool (Girard College) (2) FACT: The current pool is having its reputation RUINED (3) FACT: The payment has ALREADY been returned to the camp (4) FACT: There are Lawsuits pending It sounds like the camp got free use of the pool and potentially THOUSANDS of dollars in lawsuits because the group happens to be black/latino. This defines reverse racism - the camp is benefitting due to their race. It baffles me that people think they deserve compensation because they were inconvenienced. Also - If you sent a huge group of kids of the opposite race into any environment (BLACK OR WHITE) - lets be real - it will provoke comments/overservations...Nobody was throwing bricks. The only comment I saw was something like "Why are all the black kids here" -- Its not classy, but not worth a lawsuit either.
Jay
July 9th, 2009 - 1:45:19 PM
I would love for someone to post a membership list of this place, so these people can't hide.
Jason Diamond
July 9th, 2009 - 1:45:39 PM
It gets on my last nerve to hear these people (women, blacks, religious groups..........) ask for equal treatment. Women in the military ask to be treated equal, but get to do less pushups and situps for strength test. Blacks ask to be on an equal playing field when it comes to jobs, but get angry when a test is to hard and no blacks were able to be promoted. There are many more. If you want to be treated like you are equal quit crying about how much you are different. Cut out the african or what ever you use in front of American. America comes first. We are all Americans. If you want an equal playing field get congress to make a law that removes race and sex from all applications for jobs. We will have equality.
Ben
July 9th, 2009 - 1:48:18 PM
Here we go again...scream racist without stopping to look at what really happened here. I wonder what happened to all the free pools in Philadelphia? Do the math...$30 per child is dirt cheap...let me know where to sign my kids up. I have to pay over $900 a year for a family of four. And when I go to the ER at the hospital I pay a $100 co pay from my HMO of which I pay over $5000 a year and get to wait 4 hours behind the people who pay nothing to be seen for a headache or less...Don King is right..."Only in America".
Stephen Kral
July 9th, 2009 - 1:50:03 PM
@sco'swife: This is a men's blog that prefers a varied approach. That is to say, we cover all sorts of different topics. Some are serious in nature (this post, for example), while others are far, far from. Like this post: http://www.manolith.com/2009/07/08/the-four-most-useless-transformers-ever-invented/ Anyway, the "scoop" I got with the Jeff Goldblum story, was that it was probably a rumor, and to ignore it until further information came to light. Then, when further information did come out (reporting it to be a hoax), I reported that.
sco
July 9th, 2009 - 1:57:09 PM
Amari Lynn, I really think you are lying your pants off……and while your at it, just keep being condescending, that really drives home your point or love and tolerance…love the dignity you show by not responding (but you just couldn’t stop could you?) besides, I said I pitied you a while ago….try to be original. Of course what I said in the last paragraph makes no sense to you, because you can’t reason well. I don’t think your black so it is not racist; I just think you are not capable of understanding how to think something through…from what I am reading of the responses, I would venture that I am much more stable than you. At least I am not making up stories about being some big shot…and then saying I can’t prove it because I am worried about it…blah blah blah…. And wow, what an argument, that I want my wife dead.....you really don't understand much do you? To my wife....Oh my god! Stop embarrassing me in front of my new friends!
sco'swift
July 9th, 2009 - 1:57:57 PM
I see...so after thousands of posts, mine is the one that draws the "its a men's blog". Well...does that mean I get to cry discrimination now? Sort of like the "white's only country club" you posted about. Honestly, all the racial commentary in your story was from the kids who got kicked out...how do we know if there is any validity. Its stories like this that actually minimalize the actual racism that DOES occur in today's society. People like you that get off on writing in hyperbole actually hurt the very individuals they claim to be protecting. Well done.
sco'swife
July 9th, 2009 - 1:59:23 PM
Sorry honey. What did you want for dinner tonight??
PS
July 9th, 2009 - 2:07:54 PM
Why must some groups play the part of the eternal victim? Could it be that 65 kids in a relatively small pool was more than the staff could cope with safely? The news media and certain social activist types are just stirring up trouble where there was no intended malice initially. I'm sure that this publicity will be used to extract "tribute" from whites who will obligingly feel "guilty" as the script goes these days. Nonsensical and sad that people still cry racism over such a petty thing. They daycare got ALL their money back, they weren't physically or even verbally threatened, yet somehow we're supposed to believe they were purposely harmed in some esoteric way that's so deep we European Americans can't comprehend. This racial extortion must stop, it's old and tired.
Stephen Kral
July 9th, 2009 - 2:09:13 PM
@sco'swife: As soon as the Club posts a response to these allegations, I'll report it. Unfortunately, they have not done so yet. All calls have gone unanswered.
K Sloan Williams
July 9th, 2009 - 2:10:26 PM
To JoeSchmo: Here are my replies to your “facts” : 1) The manager was aware of the occupancy rate of his pool when he booked the camp. The FACT that he allowed the kids to complete their swim the first day indicates that they did not exceed capacity; 2) Whether it is more profitable to accommodate “members” regardless of race does not excuse breaking an agreement because of race. That is neither profitable (note the publicity now) nor lawful. It is also the statements of the President of the Club that give rise to the accusation of racism; 3) The pool asked the group not to return, because they did not want to change the “complexion” of the Club. Again, they could have asked the camp to limit the size of the group. This is not about the manager overbooking the pool. This is about the Club deciding that a group of black children, swimming weekly in their pool, would change the “complexion” or their pool. The Fact that there are other black children that swim there regularly does not validate that the Club’s action was colorblind; it merely illustrates that black people swimming at the Club is fine with them, as long as it is not a LOT of black people. The camp did not ask for free use of the pool – they paid for it. The fact that the Club returned its money does not mean that the camp got a “free ride.” What they did get was children who felt that they were discriminated against, because they were black. To be fair, this probably has more to do with class, then race but to black children overhearing comments where white people are stating that they fear for their children’s safety, that is debilitating to their self esteem. If you are not aware of this country’s history with painting black people as scary, criminal, less than human monsters, then you should read your history. The campers parents are not considering suing because their children were “inconvenienced.” If you take out all of the racial comments allegedly made by the patrons of the pool and the President, then yes, all you have is inconvenience. But the fact that many of the posters on this blog are choosing to ignore those comments simply speaks to the fact that you have no rebuttal for them. These children were injured. Whether they have a basis for a lawsuit, remains to be seen, but don’t deny that they were mistreated.
Phil Theejonson
July 9th, 2009 - 2:17:35 PM
C'mon now,..who want's 65 kids peeing and crapping in their pool?
mui
July 9th, 2009 - 2:33:52 PM
It's just sad how as humans we tend to justify our actions. The feeling of discrimination, just like any other wrong that someone feels, cannot be explained away. It just amazes me how people don't see that. Let's put discrimination aside, two people are talking, one raises their voice at the other (yells or whatever) the other person expresses how that action made them feel but the wrong doer is quick to say that he wasn't angry, he didn't mean it that way, it was misinterpreted or whatever....this usually will not change how the action was perceived....same thing here, trying to rationalize or explain away the feelings of these children does not change how they feel...
sco
July 9th, 2009 - 2:34:32 PM
"Jay July 9, 2009 - 1:45 pm I would love for someone to post a membership list of this place, so these people can’t hide." Jay, why don't you post your address, so you can't hide too. Give up your boss' phone number too please, so those who disagree with you or anyone you associate with will be able to find you and let you know. Do you think it was a giant conspiracy? Do you want to damage and hurt others who go to the club because they may be racist? Does that seem like a good idea? I Just don't get it. It seems to me that the people who get so mad are cut from the same cloth as those they disagree with. If the two sides would just put aside their differences and talk, I am sure they would find all sorts of legitimate reasons to hate each other and we can move past the racial aspect that is tearing the country apart. Hating smokers is a pretty good cause these days...one that most can get behind. And you know they can't afford to defend themselves because of cost of keeping up the habit. I used to have a good time making fun if Irish folk....but then I realized they were all too drunk to get offended.
Al Mostgawn
July 9th, 2009 - 2:36:01 PM
Ok, Ok,..calm down,..I'll settle it,..Black folk = GOOD and White folks = BAD!!!!! That's what the "news" media wants to teach you. If you're a self-hating white person then keep on eating this nonsense up. They'll slowly brainwash you into selling out your own children's future.
JoeShmo
July 9th, 2009 - 2:37:26 PM
K Sloan - Please re-read my previous post. The facts can be found in nearly all media reports regarding the situation. If there is a discrepancy, I'd be happy to correct it. In my opinion, the manager is a dumbass because he cant book a pool properly and he works at one. However, that isnt a race issue - its a lifeguard to swimmer calculation. I'm a white guy who was booked on an overcrowded flight last week, but I'm not so arrogant to think that I should profit because I had to wait for another flight. People want to lynch the pool - however, there are dozens of MEMBERS who are black/latino who say that they have never had an issue and will continue to visit the pool. Yet you assume that EVERYONE at the pool is white. im sorry, but it doesnt make sense - there are black members of the management - are they planning to exclude other blacks? it doesnt make any sense to me.
beth
July 9th, 2009 - 2:49:08 PM
Amari Lyn: It's a MOOT point, not a "mute" point. You'll make your point when you use proper grammer!
Vijay G.
July 9th, 2009 - 2:51:26 PM
None of the reverse racist here want to listen to facts- There is a difference between a BACKYARD WADING POOL that you filled up with a garden hose and maxes out at 4 feet deep, and a PUBLIC 'SWIMMING POOL' which is much deeper.. The standard max. occupancy for ANY olympic pool is 250 PEOPLE.. With kids they may enforce less people as they splash around and engage in horseplay... When you compare the size of THE 'SWIMMING' POOL IN QUESTION, (NOT a WADING pool you assembled out of aluminum and plastic) you can base its accepted limit off of the US STANDARD for a generic olympic pool.. If there is a drowning death, that is how the attorneys will arrive at whether the pool was over-utilized / understaffed etc.. for liability.. At ONLY 110,000 gallons, given depths up to 6ft, for a actual SWIMMING pool, this can very accurately be gauged to its acceptable occupancy, which NEVER in the USA goes under 10 square feet of surface area per person, and in most cases is always 20 square feet per person.. So considering that this pool is 1/6 vs. a Olymic pool, the calculation of a max, occupancy of 42 people is correct.. not only that, you must have staffing to properly monitor all the occupants which is a whole seperate issue... THIS CLUB cannot make the profits it once did in this economy, so they tried to pull a ''fast one'' to get a quick 1900 bucks, at no cost to them, and this basically 'blew up in their face'- now before you call me a terrorist, let me point out that 'blew up in their face is EUPHAMISM for 'went bad', not LITERALLY describing a explosion.. anymore than 'changed to complexion' is intended for crazed people who want a RACIAL SHOWDOWN 'HOOTNANNY' to take as literally referring to peoples actual skintone.. This is a case were greed and CUTTING CORNERS led to a bad situation, that has two parties in potential trouble- THE POOL MGMT, allowed more swimmers to enter the pool at one time than the standard US occupancy limits for pool safety permit ... there may even be a local zoning regulation to that effect in all likelyhood. They took what seemed like some easy money and when the deal went bad, they tried to give it back and make this go away..as they certainly dont want a investigation of them that shows they let 65 kids enter a pool already occupied by 15-20+ people, which VASTLY exceeds the safe limit and occupancy calculations- WHY would they not be eager to run around shouting that they kicked the kids out after letting them swarm into a overloaded pool?... Probably as a safety violation /citation is the quickest way to lose a business license, get sued, and for the Mgmt to lose their job.. So if you expect that to be PUBLICIZED by the club, you frankly are NUTS, they would rather have the racism nonsense . SECONDLY, THE CAMP STAFF, needs to be the total victims in this, or they face the potential of lawsuits if even one of those kids tells MOMMY they were injured/hurt/forced under water, in a pool that the staff had reason the observe/know could NOT contain the campers all AT ONE TIME.. this could be shown by the fact that EVERYONE ADMITS that all the existing swimmers jumped out and feared INJURY when these 65 kids all swarmed the small pool AT ONCE. ALSO, the camp staff needs INSURANCE, WHICH IN THE CASE OF A KIDS SUMMER CAMP, is very expensive to purchase.. If it can be shown that the camp staff took more kids to the pool than its capacity, the insurance can be pulled, and future policies would be prohibitively expensive. So, its in the camp staffs interest to run around shreeking about racism to keep discussion away from- 1- how many kids did they actually have CONTRACT to bring to the pool. 2- when they signed the contract what limits were placed on the number of kids they were allowed to bring at one time 3- since they noted per there own reports that all the existing swimmers were forced out of the pool when their large group entered, and those forced out reported FEAR OF INJURY from the masses of kids entering the overcrowded pool, why did they allow all the campers to enter this small pool at once? I dont think this has the first thing to do with racism. UNTIL, the article writer and camp staff start alleging that all the swimmers fled from them based on their race, instead of the more obvious reason, which was they flooded the pool and overloaded it. If I did not get a apology for this old racial garbage that is being spouted, and the protests being threatened, I would pull the state business records of the camp and contact the camps insurer with the apparent conditions these kids, both from the camp and pool, were placed in by the staffs conduct, and I bet the insurer would be very interested in whether a dangerous condition was permitted here. I think even a first year law student could prove up a case that there was a dangerous condition created/permitted. A lot also hinges on HOW many kids the camp staff told the pool mgmt they would be bringing, and whether the pool mgmt informed/properly POSTED the occupancy limits of the pool, which are always required by ZONING. Now all the stuff I covered are FACTUAL related, so they are not fun like running around accusing everyone of racism- lets face it, if this story was covered by the media/internet and this story writer IN A FACTUAL manner no one would be interested, and the few who did read about would be yawning.. The facts here support two things- 1- there is apparent fault, based on all accounts, that can be levied against BOTH the Pool Mgmt, and the Camp Staff, for zoning, oversight, and judgement. 2-the charges of racism as they applied to the families visiting the pool appear false based on all accounts, as the primary claim against them was that they 'fled' from the black kids entering the pool, while in REALITY, they got out of pool that a mass of kids entered and caused to pool to be over-occupied by close to or more than 200% (65 campers+20 non-campers = 85 / occupancy permit of 42)
JoeShmo
July 9th, 2009 - 2:52:29 PM
**"Trying to rationalize or explain away the feelings of these children does not change how they feel*** Very well said...I agree 110%. The members made some stupid comments. If there is a LARGE group of people who are different than oneself, expect some comments. While this isnt a good thing, it is reality, and the pool shouldnt be punished for it. For example, If an obese individual walks into a gym, there will be some people who make comments because the person is fat. However, It is not an ongoing HATRED for over-eaters
JoeShmo
July 9th, 2009 - 3:04:36 PM
Vijay - Very nice post...you must be an attorney or paralegal. No doubt in my mind.
Michele
July 9th, 2009 - 3:12:24 PM
At this time, you can't go the the Valley Club's website. I guess they can't handle the negative publicity that they created for themselves. What amazes me is the lack of sensitivity of the parents that made the racist remarks. Saying that the African American kids would steal or hurt the white kids is not stupid. IT IS RACIST, pure as simple. These kids were obviously hurt by the nasty remarks. The members of the pool that made the insensitvie remarks should be dealth with.
non swimmer
July 9th, 2009 - 3:16:03 PM
Why don't the racist just let the these poor babies swim for their prepaid 90 minutes once a week, and when they leave drain the pool, scrub it with clorox and then refill it for the lily white patrons? That is what they did with the public pool in the town I grew up in during the 60's... which by the way is the reason I don't swim today. Let them keep their stinking club and their stinking pool. I would rather put my kid in a metal tub than send them to that place. Even, one racist is one too many in my book! As far as cancelling other groups, I'm sure they did it to save lily white face. Joe Shmo, try explaining your logic to a 7 year old child why don't you?
Angelo
July 9th, 2009 - 3:24:46 PM
Just watched a 12 year old child answer a CNN reporter's question about what happened. He was in tears as he spoke. The victims are the camp kids. We'll never know the whole truth, but to see that kid cry as he explained that a woman was in fear that he would "steal or hurt" her child was sickening.
non swimmer
July 9th, 2009 - 3:27:45 PM
VJay even if everything you say is accurate, strange that non of it matter until the swim director went to complain about the little kid overhearing one of the club members saying that the black kids would steal and hurt the white kids. Suddenly the pool was over crowded and they had to shut down the passes... Instead of a simple statemnent to match your theory of overcrowding the club President said “There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club.” So you can try to whitewash (excuse the pun) this and justify it in your mind as much as you want to. But if you watch the CNN interview of that little boy crying, listen to what he has to say, and see him as a child ANY child, not just a black one you will understand why this strikes a racist chord with many, not just black people. Unless of course you think the children are lying, after all black folks lie, cheat, steal, abuse drugs, etc. etc. etc alll the time don't they? Strange we should elect a black family to lead this country considering all of that.
Snorlax
July 9th, 2009 - 3:29:27 PM
The club didn't like the "COMPLEXION"?? Yeah, not white enough. When they used that word, they incriminated themselves.
Vijay G.
July 9th, 2009 - 3:29:36 PM
I notice the reverse racists are all EMOTION, there is no LOGIC or THINKING, no wonder people do not welcome you. You get NOwhere in the world with irrational emotion and anger outbursts.. You advance only with logic and common sense. I came to USA with no money I am engineer now, not a lawyer, but I have to accept and work within legal obligations to do my job. Now I contract work even to OTHERS.. where once I had none even for myself. You are foolish people to behave this way, and this is why I come to your country as a boy and surpass you, while you complain, argue, and make excuses.. EXCUSES = no good Crying= no good LOGIC=GOOD
non swimmer
July 9th, 2009 - 3:37:24 PM
Vjay you are a joke. I'm not a reverse racist simply because I stand up and call it as I see it. But if you wish to think that I am, fine that is your opinion. However as I continue to make my seven figure salary and prepare for my retirement at age 49 I will wonder why I got no where in the world, LOL!!!!!
Snorlax
July 9th, 2009 - 3:37:34 PM
The Valley Club is racist. And anybody posting in here who is supporting The Valley Club is also racist. Scumbags!! The club KNEW IN ADVANCE how many kids would be coming. There is NO excuse for this. If there were too many kids for the pool's rated occupancy, the club knew in advance and should not have accepted the agreement in the first place. Racism is alive and well in the US. Funny how the only people who say it is a thing of the past are Republican white people.
Anonymous
July 9th, 2009 - 3:40:23 PM
"As soon as the Club posts a response to these allegations, I’ll report it. Unfortunately, they have not done so yet. All calls have gone unanswered." Stephen - I suspect, since you've already made such egregious accusations of racism, that they're not likely to respond with any level of haste, and if they do, I'm sure you'll be quick to further taint the facts to support your personal allegations. Afterall, what fun would there be in reporting the truth??
JoeShmo
July 9th, 2009 - 3:41:26 PM
Non-swimmer, I'm not sure that I understand your post - Just to be clear, Valley Swim Club didnt try to enslave a camp of children. I said nothing about cleaning the pool. Kids of all races need to learn how to deal with ignorant people. However, you dont profit because somebody said something stupid - Ive been called many names, but Ive never considered a lawsuit because of it. HERE IS MY EXPLANATION TO THE 7-Year OLd: "Little Joey - last week's pool doesnt have enough staff for us to go back. The camp will go to Girard college next week and we'll stop for an ice cream on the way with the $1900 that was returned to us." I dont think Little Joey will throw a temper tantrum.
sco'swife
July 9th, 2009 - 3:41:34 PM
Sorry, I don't want to be accused of hiding....I posted the previous anonymous post. :)
netizen
July 9th, 2009 - 3:45:21 PM
Here, here for The Valley swim club member who voiced their personal opinion or remark. It's about time. Why do White people in America continually have to feel guilty about Black people, and walk on eggshells constantly; particularly in the Philadelphia area. If American Blacks would shed their "entitlement" culture, maybe White people wouldn't be so "upity".
elle
July 9th, 2009 - 3:49:53 PM
dear sco and his wife, go get a life! People are on here trying to have a real conversation and you are just trying to pick a fight, not just express your opinons. It's obvious.... and pathetic.
Amari Lynn
July 9th, 2009 - 3:50:13 PM
Alright Sco, I'm a pushover. You win! Please visit www.oaal.org . Beth, I actually think my GRAMMAR, not "grammer" as you put it is fairly accurate. My spelling, on the otherhand, gets a little shady sometimes. Thanks for the correction. Feel free to send more if you choose. I'm sure that if spelling or good grammar were required for one's post to be taken seriously we could write off just about all of these posts as CRAP! Instead of playing "wanna-be editor" why don't you read these posts and try to learn something.
JoeShmo
July 9th, 2009 - 3:51:50 PM
Snorlax - Please stick to reading posts. I'm surprised you can figure out how to use a website. When people are different, it creates awkward situations of all kinds regardless of race - this is reality. The camp was aware of these differences, and chose to move forward with the contract - Would it be better for the pool to NOT say a word, and have sixty kids who are in an unsupervised / unsafe environment that doesnt have enough lifeguards? I think not.
blahblahblah
July 9th, 2009 - 3:55:46 PM
vito carisso = vijay g. it seems
Jim
July 9th, 2009 - 3:56:29 PM
I am so sorry for those young Americans who went for a dip. I hope that those people who made this terrible decision will be punished financially and socially.
Betty
July 9th, 2009 - 3:59:10 PM
What a bunch of idiots! I hope that pool/club whatever it is - IS SHUT DOWN!
MsTonya
July 9th, 2009 - 4:00:12 PM
Here we go again!!! I'd like to believe that people have overcome their prejudges, that have long been a part of the tapesty of this country... After reading many posts, it's the same 'old foolishness', and excuses for being racists. I'm sure being white, doesn't give you the same prespective as 'any minority' that faces injustices directed toward them, especally children. The old saying still applies, 'being white, is being right'... Wake up bigot's, it's 2009, and the tides have turned!!! I'm sure you wouldn't like it, if the same posion was directed toward your 'precious white babies'...
Betty
July 9th, 2009 - 4:01:03 PM
The Valley Club in Huntingdon Valley - bunch of cowards - open your website back up and see what kind of response you will get.
Black Head Shaker
July 9th, 2009 - 4:02:07 PM
Once again, he run to the hallowed halls of racism whenever it's a matter of minorities. And before ya start throwing out the "race card" over what I am about to voice, I am black. I wonder what would have happened if it had been 45 plus white children and their money had been returned. If my kids, who are bi-racial are swimming, and 45 plus of ANY race want to be in the pool, well, I, as their father, am pulling them out the of the water. But here again, we as blacks want to first play the "race card", as though this is an acceptable manner of behavior. I am not saying that racism doesn't exist but I am purporting that it isn't always the motive behind every action. What I haven't heard is a response from the club. What I haven't heard is a response from the supposed racist parents that pulled their children out the pool. And yet, people run to judgment and the accusations fly. Good Lord, if, and I do mean IF, this actually was based on race, then allow the law to deal with it. But to simply start hurling accusations around, let's get the facts. Finally, I have a very difficult time believing that ordinary Americans, myself included, still believe that race is the reason behind everything that happens to blacks. Yes, I said blacks as opposed to African-Americans. I have personally grown weary of hearing that everything white America does is akin to racism. And we as blacks, if we want to help alleviate the "divide", then perhaps it's time to reevaluate OUR relationship with the supposed white "racists" that we believe exist. Either way, the club should have the opportunity to share its perspective without fear of an uproar, protests, visits from Rev. Al, the ACLU and the ultra-left UNTIL they have spoken. My two cents.
non swimmer
July 9th, 2009 - 4:12:48 PM
Joe Schmo you need to go watch CNN's video of the child crying and what he has to say and would quickly understand that your response to him would not work. Also I never said that you said to clean the pool, only my last question on how would you explain your statement to the child was directed at you, and now that you have responded I have to say again, that would not work if you watch CNN and listen to what the child had to say. Finally no one mentioned slavery so I don't know why you did, but since you mention it, not having the freedom to swim in a pool you have paid to swim in, at the designated time you were told you can swim in it is not slavery but it is an infringement on your rights. Even as a private club they do not have the right to take your money and tell you that you are welcome to swim at the designated time then tell you no you can't because you're changing the complexion of things. If they made a mistake on crowding that would have been the initial response, not that crazy statement the club president made. Nor would they have waited until someone complained about comments being made to do so.
Black Head Shaker...yeah sure
July 9th, 2009 - 4:16:27 PM
Why do I highly doubt that Black Head Shaker is truly a black person, but rather a white person trying to get a point across and claiming to be a black person hoping that it is more effect...I'm white and my white friends do it al the time...pretty lame though
Vijay G.
July 9th, 2009 - 4:23:31 PM
In many countries, it is not permitted to have a occupation that your parent and grandparent did not practice..you must stay with your own caste. In america, there is no caste. But their is no common sense.. I lived in Baltimore and the crime is BAD and is only the KALA there who commit! you boy are darker than me you stay with your own then, I wish no more of your kaffir nonsense, you do not thing like a rational person. the americans they were crazed to bring you here for the labor as all the trouble caused by the Kala is not worth even 1% of the troubles you bring. Look to africa violence an emotional nonsense.. nothing gets done nothing can be built without bribes and corruption, and its all the same troubles as in Baltimore, and Philly,.. you black boy cannot think like proper people everyone is so tired of you. The americans are too cowardice to tell you truth, but I know of your deeds and I will not lie! I will tell the truth of how the Kala bring their problems on their own. I see the ignorance and childlike glee in disorder of the kala.. no this is no cooincidence that everywhere the Kala kaffir go, the same disorder and mayhem spawns itself
Disappointed
July 9th, 2009 - 4:25:32 PM
I live in the south and there's functions at our club all the time. They are kids, human and Americans!! I'm really disappointed with there small thinking. "Have a good weekend all!"
Black Head Shaker - to "yeah sure"
July 9th, 2009 - 4:28:40 PM
You are entitled to your opinion, but your response is part of the problem. You doubt that I am black because of what, your personal paradigms? Your personal history? So you would rather I join the legions of those upset? Perhaps you would rather I post a picture for your personal comfort? Or wait, you wouldn't believe that either... Believe this, at 43 years old, (11/14/1965), I know full-well the sting of being called nigger. I know full-well the pain of knowing that the color of my skin has in some ways, been an additional challenge in finding and being promoted in work. I know well the challenges that my children encounter because their mother is white and their father is black. Believe this, that rarely has it been more important to me, since I am a father, to speak to and about such instances if for no other reason to show to my children, that yes racism does exist, but is not an excuse to quit. Yes, you may be called unkind names, and yes you may have to contend with some of the uglier aspects of life because of your race. But I am also teaching that not every person, of any race, conforms to every stereotype. That sometimes it's just plain ignorance and has little to do with "race". And even it does, how does that diminish me as a person if I don't subscribe to that way of thinking? But perhaps you would be satisfied if I were to toss around some ebonics, and spout off about truth of life as shown by Langston Hughes, or Mal. X. Is that what you want? But here again, rather than takes my comments and address them based on the merits of commentary, you allow your own personal paradigms to make it comfortable enough for you to say "but rather a white person trying to get a point across and claiming to be a black person hoping that it is more effect". And though I imagine that it does happen, it's insulting to me and any other intelligent person, white or black that you would first assume such. Such a sad state affairs in this country...
Sarah
July 9th, 2009 - 4:36:39 PM
Black Head Shaker the facts are already known. The comments regarding race WERE made within earshot of the children AND the size of the group was disclosed when the reservation was made. I understand how you might think that racism doesn't exist - after all you are in a bi-racial relationship - however, I have lived all over the US from east to west coast and I am Black and I can tell you from first hand experience that is alive and well. I have decided to see the best in people and live my life that way, however, just because I do doesn't mean that there aren't ugly realizations out there and just because you do too doesn't mean that racism doesn't exist. What happened to these children is upsetting and wrong. It is likely something - like the bus riots when schools were integrated - that these kids will never forget.
Black Head Shaker - To Sarah
July 9th, 2009 - 4:46:23 PM
At the time I heard the story, that information (which I have had to chance to read from several different sources) was available to me. I did not say, or even intimate that racism doesn't exist (from my original post, "But here again, we as blacks want to first play the “race card”, as though this is an acceptable manner of behavior. I am not saying that racism doesn’t exist but I am purporting that it isn’t always the motive behind every action." - I know well that racism exists, so would never, in this lifetime anyway, even hint at racism being nonexistent. I was merely stating that it isn't always the reason for every action. Nor was I saying the club did NOT base their decision on race. At the time of my writing, as I said, IF, until the facts are known, let's not always assume that is has to be racially motivated. But as I said, some facts are coming to light, well, the club has to contend with the fallout of their choice. And Sarah, I appreciate the manner in which you commented. But I too have lived all this country, Kentucky, Georgia, Texas, and more, and I assure you, that there are pockets of racists everywhere. But along with that, there are people who will tolerate such bigotry as the norm for this country. And as I said in a subsequent post, such a sad state of affairs in this country.
Vijay G.
July 9th, 2009 - 4:50:02 PM
you simply cannot get along with even others of your own kinds.. you WILL NEVER as a race be able to get along with the non-africans. I baltimore, the police siren is sounding day and night.. 99% it is one kaffir attack,rob,shoot,beat,steal from another kaffir. the street cannot safely be walked upon, as the kaffir waits to overcome the passerby for ones valuables. this is not a group that can even police ITS OWN DEALINGS with one another, if this cannot be then they can NEVER be at peace with ANYONE else. I go to los angeles, once again, the kaffirs scream of the unfair treatment and to be given good things, but then you cannot set foot in there home locale without suffering great violence. you must be able to get along with your own people FIRST before you can be asking good things of others, this is why your history is that of faliure. the most dangerous place in all of boston, baltimore, philly, and los angeles I HAVE SEEN is the all-kaffir neighborhood.. they have no PEACE WITH THEIR OWN, so they seek to distract from that by finding other races to fight with instead. you cannot fix your own so you seek to fight with others to obscure.. I see it, I am not afraid of the truth
Mimi
July 9th, 2009 - 4:56:13 PM
www.thevalleyclub.com/index.html has taken their website details offline. But they can't escape that this is the internet and nothing is ever lost. You can go see their cached website and see photos of the website before they took it down by going to archives.org and putting in their domain.
Anonymous
July 9th, 2009 - 4:56:16 PM
Stop using the term reverse racist. If you are saying white people are the ones being discriminated against, it is still racism not reverse racism. You've been listening to Rush Limbaugh too much.
ihatehaters
July 9th, 2009 - 4:56:34 PM
Stop using the term reverse racist. If you are saying white people are the ones being discriminated against, it is still racism not reverse racism. You've been listening to Rush Limbaugh too much.
Anonymous
July 9th, 2009 - 5:02:23 PM
Elle-why is your opinion more valid than others? I didn't realize the comments were limited to only those you agree with.
Vijay G.
July 9th, 2009 - 5:03:35 PM
"We had originally agreed to invite the camps to use our facility, knowing full well that the children from the camps were from multi-ethnic backgrounds. Unfortunately, ***we quickly learned that we underestimated the capacity of our facilities and realized that we could not accommodate the number of children from these camps.*** All funds were returned to the camps "Daniel Veres, a 16-year old Hispanic teen who is also a member, says the entire siutation is just a misunderstanding. "We're not judgemental, we're just friendly," Veres said of the mostly white club" http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Swim-Club-Members-Nothing-to-Do-With-Race.html So, here you have not the EMOTION and reverse racists nonsense... they finally must admit, as proven.. the POOL is too small for these groups. the other races all get along, the kaffir will not as always.. always the cries of 'you do not give me fairness' and then they go destroy one another but always someone else should be held to blame..
chauncey
July 9th, 2009 - 5:08:50 PM
Lets be honest here....black and latin kids are always bad in large groups...they are loud...have the "im black" chip on their shoulder. I would have taken my kids away as well if 60 of them showed up at my pool. Its a safety thing. FYI : Im a black man
big pappy
July 9th, 2009 - 5:13:55 PM
"Out of nowhere, the six were attacked by dozens of teenage boys, who shouted ''This is our world'' and ''This is a black world'' as they confronted Marshall and his family. The Marshalls, who are white, say the crowd of teens who attacked them and two friends June 27 on Girard Street numbered close to 50. The teens were all black. ''This was almost like being a terrorist act,'' Marshall said. ''And we allow this to go on in our neighborhoods?'' "Akron police are investigating. Right now, the case is NOT being classified as a racial hate crime" http://www.ohio.com/news/50172282.html There is a lot a media time being devoted to a mass of black kids who could not legally fit into a small pool, but here you have the usual black kids on the prowl, targeting a whole white family trying to watch fireworks, injuring them all, NO HATE CRIME, and they re reffered to as kids instead of offenders or attackers.. a mob of 50 BLACKS attack one lone white family put the father in the hospital with a concussion.. it ONLY MAKES THE LOCAL PAPERS.. A bunch of blacks try to fit double the capacity into a pool and put everyone in danger and this is NATIONAL NEWS.. we need a all-white state to get away from these fools.
ralph watts
July 9th, 2009 - 5:35:24 PM
Look at this issue from the clubs boards position. It's a private club!!!! I'm sure there are many public pools in the Philadelphia area that could accommodate these 65 children. If the parents who were there and took their children out because they felt these very young children (who's parents were not there) would be causing a health hazard (urinating and hair balm oil) due to poor up bringing so it was their right to leave. I would venture to say 50% of these children take only one bath per week. As to racism----Let's talk private black origanations----NAACP, Southern Chirstian Leadership, United Negro College Fund and Black College Spring Break. How many whites are in these black only groups? Blacks are "tribal people." Look at the presidential race where 95% of the black vote was for the president. Better yet, look at the above response---95% black. This club had good reason to reject this group but the press, Jessie J. and Al S. will bury us with commentary.
camden
July 9th, 2009 - 5:42:29 PM
you have a unpleasant but nonetheless true point ralph.. the blacks always stick together with any other black, even when its total nonsense like this pool crap.. they WANT a racial fight with whites to get something out of it, and its also true about the guy who said blacks fight each other and cant get along, UNLESS they have WHITES TO UNITE AGAINST and blame.. this is basically the sick way they have been tought to at least TEMPORARILY unite with each other.. it always falls apart a short time later then they need to find a case of white 'racism' to unite against for a few more hours...repeat cycle..
ralph watts
July 9th, 2009 - 5:57:08 PM
Further comment. Let's say due to over crowding of 65 black children, a 10 year old drowns. I'm sure that white high school life guard at the club will never ever have a future life to live by and will always be remembered as that "White Boy" who let my baby die. Guess who will own the club now? It's back to the "Hood" and turn on the hydrants.
D
July 9th, 2009 - 6:04:36 PM
Shame on The Valley Club and shame on the white parents who made the deflamatory comments against innocent black children who were there only to swim. I am shocked and saddened that these 60 or so campers were denied use of this private pool and I don't give a rats a** if they can deny anyone without just cause. I am appalled and deeply disturbed by the comments made by the owner of the pool and while they may not condone what was said by a paying member, her membership should be revoked immediately and any and all family members should be 'ha' wait for it, blacklisted and not admitted.
Jaytea
July 9th, 2009 - 6:18:50 PM
SUPRISE!!!! They didn't think about race when they got the check!! Those racist WhiteDevils didn't want there kids mixing with kids of color in the first place that's why they were members of that club it's common sense, anybody can read through the lines and see this. You got these people taking about blacks are always screaming Racism when it's plain and simple, What the FUCK YOU THINK WE SHOULD DO WHEN IT'S RIGHT THERE IN OUR FACE!!!! Sit back and smile and reason with a Racist White Devil!!!
ralph watts
July 9th, 2009 - 6:19:37 PM
Further comment 2. Vito Carriso--You hit it right on!!!! My only remaining question is now that the $1,900 has been given back, will the Creative Steps Organization return that money to the tax payers or weak minded private white donors who get sucked into these bleeding heart charities.
mark joseph
July 9th, 2009 - 6:27:26 PM
Mr. Watts, you need a psychiatrist that provides you with some drugs because you would definitely need it along with the rest of the people on this board that feels that NOTHING WRONG was done here. Let's flip the scrip! If there were 65 white kids at a exclusive black community pool, I can guarantee you that the black kids would not jump out of the pool because they fear that some of the kids would attack the black kids. To say these kids should not be there because they would fundamentally change the complexion of the pool is beyond contempt! Are you suggesting that the black kids would change the water to black once they got into the pool? Will the pool become full of disease and impossible to get rid of? Will some of the black kids go to some of the white kids and drown them in the pool? What are you scared of? And you have the nerve to say on this message board that blacks should shut up and stay on their side of town. Did they ride the city bus to the camp? You are ignorant and let me forcefully say (you know who you are)--YOU ARE A RACIST AND A SHAME TO BE CALLED AN AMERICAN! Oh yeah, I forgot, we have a BLACK/WHITE president. Would he and his children have been denied to swim at that pool if he weren't president? I am urging the president when he comes back from Russia to comment on this race matter! I would be very upset if he doesn't tackle this matter. Big Pappy, I agree with you to a point that what happened in Akron was just local, but what happened in suburb Philly sent reverberations throughout the country. TWO WRONGS JUST DON'T MAKE IT RIGHT! However, throughout many decades, blacks have been attacked physically and mentally and we have to sit around and say nothing about it? The people who do not believe there was discrimination and going on here should evaluate themselves and look these words up in the dictionary and see if they fit those definitions. The way to get rid of a problem is to first of all accept their faults. Furthermore, CREATIVE STEPS SHOULD SUE THE VALLEY CLUB FOR EVERY DIME AND TAKE THAT MONEY AND OPEN UP A SWIMMING AND INVITE ALL ETHNIC GROUPS TO SHOW THE WORLD THAT AFRICAN-AMERICANS DO NOT TREAT OTHER ETHNIC GROUPS THIS WAY!
Chris Salzmann
July 9th, 2009 - 6:34:36 PM
RALPH WATTS, You're a sorry excuse of a human being. RALPH: If the parents who were there and took their children out because they felt these very young children (who’s parents were not there) CHRIS: It's a freaking day camp, you moron. I'm white, my wife and I both work and our daughter is in day camp too. Where are your kids when or if you work? You lock them in a closet inside your trailer??? but then you probably don't have kids since which woman would procreate with you anyway. RALPH: ....would be causing a health hazard (urinating and hair balm oil) due to poor up bringing so it was their right to leave. CHRIS: So you assume that because they're black, and in day camp, that they have a bad upbringing???? But then, you're a racist so big surprise there. RALPH: I would venture to say 50% of these children take only one bath per week. CHRIS: So (AGAIN) because they're black, you assume they're dirty??? But then (AGAIN), you're a racist so big surprise there. RALPH: Blacks are “tribal people.” Look at the presidential race where 95% of the black vote was for the president. CHRIS: And 90% of blacks voted for John Kerry in 2004. What was the reason there? And 40% of whites voted for Obama without whom he would never have won. RALPH: Better yet, look at the above response—95% black. CHRIS: How do you judge that? Just because most of the responses reject RACISM, you assume they're black? I'm white and I think you're an idiot. Finish your GED yet? My big wish is that one or ALL your kids bring home a nice black boy or girl and end up marrying them and having kids with them. Wouldn't you just DIE??? That would solve one problem here because the fewer racists in this country, THE BETTER!!!
Chris Salzmann
July 9th, 2009 - 6:40:01 PM
BIG PAPPY: "we need a all-white state to get away from these fools." CHRIS: Why don't YOU take your sorry ass out of the state, better still, out of the country so we can all feel better??? BTW, I'm white and I think you're an idiot. Must be one of those NON-COLLEGE educated whites who Hillary Clinton was counting on to win the primary. GET OVER IT!
netwatcher
July 9th, 2009 - 6:42:31 PM
listen dude.. fact is blacks cause NOTHING but problems, CANNOT EVEN GET ALONG WITH ONE ANOTHER, and the only thing they produce is crime and violence.. most of it in their own bombed-out looking neighborhoods.. whites do not want to fight with you..its a waste of time, we just want to stay AWAY from you. you on the other hand alienate EVERY other group, cannot have a civil society even in your own neighborhoods, and actively NEED TO FIGHT WITH WHITES, as its the only thing that for a little bit of time keeps blacks from blasting away at other blacks.. I curse the damn slave owners who ruined our country by bringing blacks here.
mark joseph
July 9th, 2009 - 6:45:41 PM
Chris, you hit it on the nail! Ralph needs help and I hope by him reading these message will open his CLOSED brain! I thought we were beyond all this, but apparently we are back to square one! Do you know the sad part about all of this? Let's say Creative Steps sued and won for discrimination and The Valley Club is forced to open it's doors for every ethnic group--Because of what happened, no minorities would still want to go there because they fear they would looked at with scorn once they enter the pool and thereby, The Valley Club Wins. If no minority comes to our pool, we would have peace and quiet from the "undesirables"! I thought this still is the problem in the GOOD 'OL SOUTH!
Michael
July 9th, 2009 - 6:49:08 PM
@KikiA - Where did you hear that the minorities were TEENS? I am as white as they come and it was wrong and racist of the parents to react as they did, and it was even more so for The Valley Club to kick them out. @Chris Salzmann - Well said!
donna
July 9th, 2009 - 6:49:35 PM
I am very upset and bothered by all of the racist comments made by one Ralph Watts. Frankly, he scares the hell out of me and I'm a white female! Talk about prejudice!
Human Nature
July 9th, 2009 - 6:53:21 PM
To All: Please search for User: Kyle and read what he clearly and eloquently states as FACT not circumstantial hypotheticals. I do not need to retort what was stated but he manages to say what exist to date and not what is perceived. Fact: I am African American Fact: I grew up with educated parents who were afforded the opportunity to expose me to environments like "The Valley" club. Fact: I have heard with my own ears comments very similar to those supposedly stated when I was a young child Fact: It left an indeliable mark on me and since have been very cautious around Classist people more specifically entitled caucasians Opinion: I am not surprised by the reactions of club members Fact: club members (golf,country,tennis) pay a hefty fee to shield themselves from outside environments or people within those environments that they would not choose themselves unless forced e.g. exclusivity Opinion: Club members making any racial statements ARE a reflection of the "type" of members allowed Fact: Racism aside there was a breach of contract without a reasonable explanation provided Fact: Vito, you are just plain wrong. Reason: Complexion refers to the natural color, texture, and appearance of the skin, especially that of the face. The word is derived from the Late Latin complexi, which initially referred in general terms to a combination of things, and later in physiological terms, to the balance of humors. (cited from wikipedia's dictionary.No mention of tudors anywhere) Opinion: No matter how we spin this it all boils down to what side of the fence you are on and what you have been exposed to in life. I've experienced painful situations like this and thus my opinion leans toward this being a very true reality. I've lived it therefore I cannot see any other explanation. That is the side of the fence that I am on. Right or wrong!
Michael
July 9th, 2009 - 6:57:02 PM
@Jaytea ~ WoW... What the hell was that? Reads like the rant of racist black person. FYI - Racism goes both ways. There are just as many racist blacks as there are racist whites. Fact is, people like don't help matters much. Fortunately, the mothers that I heard speak of the incident didn't go off on a racial harangue like you have. That kind of attitude does little to help your cause.
Anonymous
July 9th, 2009 - 6:57:44 PM
Yes Netwatcher, I am black and I cause a lot of problems--by responding to you ignorant message. Let's see--I am a teacher and my wife a speech pathologist (she is also black)! I cause a lot of violence and crime. I am the reason you cannot walk the streets at night--I am the reason you can't get a job--I am the reason you can't into college because they have set aside quotas for people like me to get accepted first! See where this is going? You generalize that ALL BLACKS (INCLUDING PRESIDENT OBAMA) AND OTHER MINORITIES CAUSE CRIME AND VIOLENCE! You are sick and in desperate need of drugs and psychiatric help. If you want to stay away from us--be my guest, but quit being ignorant and get SOME COMMON SENSE. That all minorities are not worth being around. I will write, write, write, write, write, write until you get sick of my responses that will make you leave this message board! Do you know the sickest thing of all, YOU ARE TEACHING THIS RACISM TO YOU KIDS WHO WILL GROW UP AND BECOME MORE RACIST THAN YOU!
Human Nature
July 9th, 2009 - 6:58:28 PM
To All: Just trying to shed a little light and "keep it real"...lol. Complexion and Racism: The variation in complexion has also been used through the centuries to justify racism,the tone of one's skin (and other traits, such as skull shape and size) believed to be proof of one people’s innate inferiority or superiority over another.It is arguable that racism has existed in many forms, since the time when a clear distinction between race could be seen (in skin tone and other physical traits) and/or when two or more different ethnic groups initially came into contact for the first time.In a more modern example, Europeans from the Renaissance onwards, believed the idea that they greatly differed from other groups and constructed a hierarchy of human beings, according themselves a higher status than Africans or Asians.Aryanism, which flourished in the nineteenth and twentieth centuries, declaimed the superiority of the so-called "Aryan complexion" (blond hair, blue eyes, contradicting the Indo-Aryans and Indo-Iranians).[citation needed] In Europe, it is now well understood that the concept of race for human beings does not exist,except for purposes of positive discrimination (aka affirmative action). but yet Aryanism still exist. Complexion and Biology: A person’s complexion is, however, a biological trait. The protein molecule known as melanin causes variation in tone. Melanocytes insert granules of melanin called melanosomes into the other skin cells of the human epidermis. The melanosomes in each recipient cell accumulate atop the cellular nucleus, where they protect the nuclear DNA from mutations caused by the sun's ionizing radiation. The human body tends to protect itself against harmful surroundings. The epidermis of the body, very sensitive and delicate, reacts almost immediately to most outside affects. People whose ancestors lived for long periods in the regions of the globe near the Equator generally have more active melanocytes, and therefore larger quantities of melanin in their skins. This makes their skins very dark and protects them against high levels of exposure to the sun (it also depends on the country). In areas of the globe closer to the poles, people have far less need for protection from ionizing radiation, so their skin is usually lighter.
Michael
July 9th, 2009 - 7:07:02 PM
@Human Nature - Skin color can be changed. Taking doses of Monobenzyl ether of hydroquinone will help in the depigmentation. Unfortunately, it does little to change ones attitude.
Anonymous
July 9th, 2009 - 7:09:12 PM
You just can't help yourself! Do you think I was born yesterday? Look, my misinformed bloggers, there are racists in all ethnic groups! When I see a white person carrying (no kidding) a banner saying WHITE POWER! I do not get upset because EVERY ETHNIC GROUP SHOULD EXIBIT SOME RACIAL PRIDE! The point of departure comes in when that same White person or othe Ethnic Group says THAT THEY ARE THE MASTER RACE and we are better than everybody else; we will have facilities that will prevent other ethnic groups from entering you are not WHITE; we will make sure you don't get that job because you are not WHITE, you can't drive that luxurious car because YOU ARE NOT WHITE! Get a life and get educated!
Human Nature
July 9th, 2009 - 7:10:07 PM
To All: More food for thought. Don't go by emotions use your god given brain and read! The United States: Country clubs can be exclusive organizations. In small towns, membership in the country club is often not as exclusive or expensive as in larger cities where there is competition for a limited number of memberships. In addition to the fees, some clubs have additional requirements to join. For example, membership can be limited to those who reside in a particular housing community. Historically, many country clubs refused to admit members of minority racial groups, such as African Americans, Asian Americans, and non-white Hispanic Americans, as well as members with specific faiths, such as Jewish or Catholic individuals. In many jurisdictions, such discriminatory requirements are now prohibited, but in others, such policies are still legal or are subject to specific circumstances.[2] In some cases, lawsuits have forced clubs to drop discriminatory policies. In one example, in 1990 professional golfer Tom Watson resigned from the Kansas City Country Club in Mission Hills, Kansas, in protest after local businessman and civic leader Henry Bloch was denied membership. Watson believed the club denied Bloch because he was Jewish. Although Watson is not Jewish, his then-wife and children are. After Watson's nationally-publicized protest, Bloch was offered a membership, which he accepted. Watson rejoined the club in 1995. Since that time The Kansas City Country Club has accepted several minority and Jewish members.[3] The Augusta National Golf Club, where The Masters golf tournament is played, is one of the best-known clubs that does not admit women. In September, 2008 Katon Dawson left Forest Lake Club after a twelve year membership because it still has a whites-only restriction.[4] In addition, country club membership tends to be self-selective and people often choose to join clubs where they can associate with people from similar socio-economic and cultural backgrounds.
Cliff Clark
July 9th, 2009 - 7:11:43 PM
From: Old White Guy Wow! I'm always amazed at how vitriolic these forums become. We just can't help revealing who we really are, can we? For my part, I've decided to send some money to the summer camp group, for the program to use for the kids enjoyment.
MsTonya
July 9th, 2009 - 7:13:10 PM
Cris and Mark, I like what you said, you put it right up front for a guy that must suffer from A.D.D of some sort... Netwatcher needs more than a doctor, he is a idiot!!! If you can look beyond your simple, backward way of thinking Netwatcher, and the other who think, teach, promote racism, need to get a grip on reality... You would recongnize, and understand that RACISM is no longer tolerated by even your own folks. Go back in your trailer and hide, your stupidity and posion it no longer works for level headed people of any race... When you attempt to stand in judgement because of the color of ones skin, says the mentality you are working with. To be considered dirty, or not wanted really speaks to your level of thinking and education!!! It is a sad day for your children when you teach such wickedness to a child. I guess that is what happen with the Jeffery Domers, Mansons, and many others of this world, they were raised by the likes of someone with your mindset... You don't even need a computer because it's obvious you don't know what to say 'positive' or 'constructive' to help heal the wounds of the past from simple, stupid, arrogent, garbage heads folks like yourself...
netwatcher
July 9th, 2009 - 7:13:14 PM
listen.. almost no white people actively HATE black people.. we just do NOT WANT to put up with your DRAMA and constant complaints.. leave us alone! Philly is ALL BLACK.. its a ghetto.. you could not find ONE pool for these philly kids in philly..? stop following us to remote areas, LEARN TO GET ALONG WITH OTHER BLACKS, once you can stop your own kids from unleashing CRIME WAVES, maybe we can get along til then, i dont hate you.. you are basically a lost cause UNLESS you fix your own community FIRST. Chasing after everyone demanding that you caught them acting 'racist' is bull**** unless you have cleaned up all your won peoples mess IN YOUR OWN NEIGHBORHOODS! GET LOST!
Human Nature
July 9th, 2009 - 7:15:33 PM
@ Michael, Great bit of information. The chemicals you are referring to are those used to lighten the skin for patients with Vitiligo or other permeatations of the skin. It can be topical or ingested in pill form. In addition this information is great if I were talking about "Complexion" as it pertains to science. If you recall It was informing some of our readers that in the U.S. the overwhelming understanding of complexion is the color of ones skin.
Human Nature
July 9th, 2009 - 7:22:19 PM
Easy Netwatcher! Have you ever asked yourself how those ghettos were allowed to exist in the first place. Do yourself a favor and speak to a Jew about the term "Ghetto" and you will understand the meaning. Second its easy to tell someone else to fix their own community from a position of privelage. I am from Los Angeles and I can tell you that fixing this "community" is more complex than just saying one should fix it. It involves education, money, faith oh and education and more money. How do you suggest these "people" break a cycle of poverty and despair with little to no tools? Could you build a house given a blueprint but no utilization of the tools needed. I rarely say this to anyone but you are just plain stupid!
JoeShmo
July 9th, 2009 - 7:24:04 PM
The reality was that an arrangement between a private club and a day-camp didnt work out. In the process, the club's members said some rude things. Their money was returned and parted ways with an apology from the club's President (according to CNN). What is the big issue? They have a new location and the money was returned. Please explain why ANYBODY deserves compensation from a lawsuit...its laughable. Sometimes things don't work out. Period. They have parted ways, yet people still say that they should be paid because little johnny cried - guess what, little johnny cries when he doesnt get a transformer, so he DESERVES parents who will get him everything he wants. This is pathetic, if you believe that this issue should have lasted past a half hour, your an idiot. Period.
big pappy
July 9th, 2009 - 7:25:52 PM
50 BLACK KIDS beat one white family trying to watch fireworks media says this is ''NOT a hate crime'' - we are worried about too many black kids in a pool thats too small. this is why whites try to avoid blacks frankly.. If this white faily were not there to attack and insult, then these black rampaging thugs would do as they always do and seek black victims.. fix your own! no more racism crap til you fix your own http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RXpV2ivgp4A&feature=Responses&parent_video=2RmneMDZlWQ&index=0&playnext=1&playnext_from=RL
Human Nature
July 9th, 2009 - 7:29:46 PM
In addition, country club membership tends to be self-selective and people often choose to join clubs where they can associate with people from similar socio-economic and cultural backgrounds. Let's repeat this so you really get the meaning. In addition, country club membership tends to be self-selective and people often choose to join clubs where they can associate with people from similar socio-economic and cultural backgrounds. Why are any of you arguing what we have know for years. We are all playing ourselves if we think that THIS form or bigotry does not or could not exist!
JoeShmo
July 9th, 2009 - 7:34:18 PM
Further - Its a private club - Even IF it was exclusively white, the members clearly want it to be that way. Why would you inject 60 Black children into that environment. As a parent, I cant think of ANY reason why I would want to send my child into that atmosphere. Just doesnt make sense.... There are Private Black clubs too - However, I dont feel the need to force my children to join the NAACP.
Human Nature
July 9th, 2009 - 7:35:19 PM
@ Big Pappy. Fix whose own? Americans, African Americans, Thugs, pimps, gang members? Who are you referring to? How do you propose that these "own" do this? Just pick yourself up by the bootstrap? Isn't that something that has to be taught and positively reinforced? The only reason you think like you do is because someone told you to and it somehow agrees with you. How is that any different from a child who is told to survive "by any means necessary"? You think that child would be a criminal if he or she had a positive environment around them 24/7 like most kids in affluent neighborhoods? Come on man you can do better that this.
MsTonya
July 9th, 2009 - 7:39:38 PM
Anonymous, don't be ashamed to use your name, we no longer have to hide from stupid people like netwatcher, or the likes of his type mindset!!! We can't get mad any longer because of how he feels. I do totally agree that he needs medication and probably has a house full of children that don't stand a chance of being much more than he and his wife already are, because of the example they are FORCED to be reared by... I really understand why prayer has been such a necessary part of Black folk's life, for many, many, many years... We need to remain prayerful for fools...
mark joseph
July 9th, 2009 - 7:42:08 PM
JoeShmo, are you trying to make light of this incident? What sense did it make for the club to take Creative Steps money? Didn't the manager know that there were 65 kids coming? Shouldn't they have told the director of Creative Steps that 65 kids is too many kids at one time and that they could have referred them to a larger pool site? What if it had be a white camp from Ohio and paid the same 1900 dollars--would they have been told the same thing? I don't think so! The Valley Club took the money and with the numerous complaints from the parents and children about the blacks in the pool, they made an EXCUSE to why they couldn't swim there anymore! If they would have said, WE DO NOT WANT YOU HERE ANYMORE1--I would have happy because they said it to their faces--not coming up with some STUPID LAME EXCUSE!
mark joseph
July 9th, 2009 - 7:44:14 PM
Ms. Tonya, It is Mark Joseph--I forgot to put my name in the name required area! My next email will blow your mind! Sorry for the mistake!
JoeShmo
July 9th, 2009 - 7:45:46 PM
Human Nature - Someday these pockets of minorities will stop blaming everyone else for their issues. Once it became "cool" to have 10 "baby mamas", millions of children are growing up in broken households. This is a choice to the INCREDIBLY high percentage of single parent families in the minority groups. Or is this the fault of Whites too? This is what Big Pappy meant. GROW UP and TAKE RESPONSIBILITY, until this happens, nothing will change.
Human Nature
July 9th, 2009 - 7:48:05 PM
As stated earlier by Kyle (Not my words but well said) Let’s be clear for a moment, because there are a lot of allegations being thrown around, some based on facts/reporting, some not. 1.) The Creative Steps Day Camp, obtained permission to rent the pool for 90 minutes every Monday afternoon at a cost of $1,900. 2.) When the sixty inner-city children showed up, other members left the pool, some making arguably racist comments 3.) Soon after, the group was told to leave by pool staff. 4.) The group was then refunded their money. 5.) The Swim Club’s president then wrote in a statement: “There was concern that a lot of kids would change the complexion … and the atmosphere of the club.” (Note: no mention of safety or space concerns) Not clear: 1.) What the terms of agreement for the rental were. (i.e. did the club know there would be sixty kids, etc.) 2.) Whether or not the pool was big enough to fit everyone safely. 3.) Whether or not there were enough lifeguards on duty. Which leaves me to conclude, those arguing that the Swim Club’s actions might be racist, are basing their argument on the reporting. Those arguing otherwise, are basing their argument on hypotheticals (i.e. is the pool big enough, etc.). It might turn out the hypotheticals are true. But until another reporter goes in there and asks those questions, they are little more than hypotheticals. Guess work, that is. So until a new report comes out clearing things up, it seems like the facts line up with those arguing against the Valley Swim Club’s actions.
netwatcher
July 9th, 2009 - 7:51:59 PM
no excuses no more complaints no ''it wasnt fair''... FIND A WAY.. the black community in the USA is basically Haiti, but with US taxpayer funds.. Any group that can maintain a civil society AMONGST THEIR OWN GROUP can advance and prosper... IF YOUR OWN ETHNIC GROUP IS UNABLE to work out a peace among its OWN people... their is absolutely NOTHING anyone OUTSIDE can do for.. the black neighborhood of EVERY SINGLE town in the USA is the most violent, the most fatherless children, the most crime and social problems.. is all that the fault of the baby born there- NO. Do the ADULTS there get the cop-out of screaming for any percieved nonsense they think is racist, while there own community is a total violent mess of fatherless kids wreaking havoc- NO. I am white, but I know the difference between WEB DuBois and Booker T. Washington.. Washington advice should have been followed, as it would have lead to a gradual, but FUNCTIONAL inclusion of a blacks into the greater society.. he was called names and DuBois, who wanted absolute integration even of those who had no means of support, no skills, etc.. WON OUT.. you know have total forced integration of EVERY class of balck society in a way that even white society does not integrate itself, and the end result is it turned loose the worst examples, allowed them to destroy the black community internally, and most black businesses, now today the results of spurning washington are exactly what he suggested they would be.. a non-functional black community at war with itself, that is trailing after white society for set-asides, benefits, apologies, and endless racial drama, instead of raising up its own people and not worrying about others opinions
JoeShmo
July 9th, 2009 - 7:55:14 PM
Mark Joseph - It didnt work out and the camp was asked to leave. They found a new location and got the $1900 back. Where is the problem? The members werent happy and the camp wasnt happy. They parted ways. Where is the issue? The people who potentially hit the jackpot are the parents of the children who file lawsuits. This whole issue is created to start a lynch mob mentality. Some of us are bright enough to recognize that this is done purely for money.
Human Nature
July 9th, 2009 - 7:59:06 PM
Damn Shmo! In addition to being insightful you are also clarvoyant! I didn't know you able to read and interpret another mans thoughts. You really have to let me in on your secret.
jpl_57
July 9th, 2009 - 8:02:17 PM
For all the ignorant people out there. The only thing that matters is you don't judge people by their race, sex, religion, sexual preference, ect... Don't you like the people who say they are Christians, but are racists? What bible are they using in their churches? The people at the valley swim club should be ashamed to be members of such establishment. They should cancel their membership to show that they are not willing to support such club.
Julie
July 9th, 2009 - 8:04:23 PM
I hope everyone who belongs to this club cancels their membership. The look on the children's face who were being discriminated against is unfathomable. Fill in the pool so no one can swim there.
JoeShmo
July 9th, 2009 - 8:12:54 PM
Human Nature - You didnt address my comment at all. there are multiple generations of minority children without proper role models or families. Perhaps you should dedicate yourself to worrying about this role model issue rather than a couple swim club members who made ignorant remarks. You would rather be angry at another race than to take responsibility for issues caused by one's own family/race. Well...grow up, buddy.
mark joseph
July 9th, 2009 - 8:18:04 PM
For Netwatcher, BigRalph, and others who are CLOSED MIND TO OTHER ETHNIC GROUPS, I like to share with you a story. In 2002, me and my wife was driving around in the WHITE AREA OF BAKERSFIELD, CALIFORNIA. (Bakersfield is called the armpit of America because it is the home of many racist groups--especially in nearby Oildale, Wasco, and Lost Hills.) Of course, some of you know when blacks or minorities drive around or even attempt to live in an exclusive or even nice WHITE NEIGHBORHOOD, they are sometimes met with resistance, or the police are called. However, on this particular Sunday afternoon, we were driving around looking at the New Coleman Homes. We got out the car and started looking at some of the homes for sale, and lo and behold, an Middle Aged White Couple walked up to us and asked us "Would you like to look inside our home?" I said, "Sure, Thank you!" They showed us all the rooms and even showed us inside their closets (I am telling you the truth and I don't swear!). We thanked them for letting us into their home. Upon leaving, I told my wife that I wish that would be the rule and not the exception. In some white communities, they are afraid that if minorities were to move into the community, they fear the crime rate will rise, the nearby school's educational quality will go down, the minorities will play loud music and trash the neighborhood! It goes to show you that if you accept people for who they are and LOOK PAST RACE AND LOOK PAST FEAR, This society would be a better place! Again, I hope Obama addresses this!
Amari Lynn
July 9th, 2009 - 8:29:45 PM
Have mercy on us Lord! I rarely come to these sites and get involved in the posting and reading of posts but this has been an eye-opening experience for me! I have to admit, I'm a little spoiled. No I'm VERY spoiled with regards to where I live because I don't have to deal with the RACIST, FOUL, VENEMOUS, IDIOTS like so many on this site on a regular basis! And to think I was considering leaving California and moving to the east coast in 5 years. WOAH, I gotta rethink that now! I knew there were people out there who thought this way, but I had really become convinced that they were just the Bill O'Reily's, Rush Limbaugh's, and Glen Beck's of the world, with maybe a few other small time offenders. I am blessed to live and work around people of all races and ethnicities and for the most part we all get along and deeply respect one another. Part of that might be attributed to the fact that most of my social and work circles are comprised of educated (with 4 year degrees, mostly graduate degrees) people. I don't say that to be elitist, but it's AMAZING what a difference education makes on one's attitudes and perceptions of life! Also I'm a professor myself, therefore a huge advocate for higher education. But honestly, I am really shocked to hear all of this blantantly racist posturing and stereotyping coming from posters like, Ralph, vijay, netwatcher, big pappy, Jason Diamond...just plain IGNORANT! And the not so blantly racist but what I call "racism deniers" like Sco, JoeSmo, Michael and many others. My jaw is on the floor! I thought this was a black and white story (meaning clear, no shades of gray). Those children were treated WRONG and there is no other valid explanation for it but their race! Anyone trying to cover that up, surmise other scenarios, defend the swim club, blame the day camp, insult the parents of the day camp kids, re-define the word complexion, measure the pool, shout "race-card", cry "reverse-racism", accuse black catered entities (like Miss Black America, Nile Swim Club and Jack and Jill) of doing the same thing, bring up unrelated stories of black on white crime, slander the entire black race...anyone doing these things IS A JOKE! May Jesus have MERCY on your souls (yes, I AM a Christian and proud of it!)!!! I've been to Philly and to Baltimore for conferences and I enjoyed both cities. We were actually considering moving to the Baltimore area in a few years...we liked it that much. But many of you hateful types are posting and identifying that you are from those cities. My reason for wanting to move there is for all the rich African American history and culture that exists out there that in California we seem to miss out on. But I see that a culture of hate also seems to exist among the whites and that I am SO not used to and frankly quite afraid of. My final plea is for people to please EDUCATE YOURSELVES! Don't go down into the grave ignorant about life! Read books about history, sociology, philosophy, and take a few trips to countries where the majority of the people don't look like you do! It will change your life if you let it. On January 20th, 2009 my faith in this country was renewed. I will continue to have faith and believe that we can change and put the history of fear and hatred behind us, but the only way it can happen is if the majority culture is willing to admit that THERE IS A PROBLEM. I can't loose hope, we can do this...YES WE CAN!
Don't hurt the children
July 9th, 2009 - 8:35:43 PM
I am not buying the statement from John. Sorry. This is racism at it's purest form. Sad that there is such. If it were in issue of overcrowding, then the Valley Club could have decided to make some agreement with the day camp facility regarding the amount of children who could go. For Example, the daycamp director could have set-up for half to go one week and the other half the following week. John, the board of directors, whatever, got pressured in some way by a member or some members, who knows, and thought that the decision they had made would have satisfied whomever. Did they not know that these children are human? That they have feelings and desires just like any child? That they were so looking forward to their summers at the pool? Some of the best memories for a child come from summers by the water, be it the ocean, a lake, a pool. None of these children deserved this. None. Step back, take a look at America. Remember who we are, where we come from.
Socal
July 9th, 2009 - 8:44:41 PM
I can honestly say there is no reasonable excuse that the huntingdon valley club can come up with. To "underestimate" the capacity is a bunch of bull.. I am a lifeguard and the way we do it at our club is when people book parties or events for the pool the club knows in advanced of how many people will be attending. The club then assigns the amount of lifeguards too the pool. I work at a private club also and they allow open memberships and rentals for the pool. Regardless how anyone put it the day camp paid IN ADVANCED to use the pool for 90mins. Now it is common sense to ask how many kids will be attending the pool. There is no way possible for that club not too know to how many kids were coming to that pool. A club has to know how many people are going to be attending to schedule the correct amount of lifeguards at the time. If the club could not accomadate that many kids OR did not have enough lifeguards then the manager of the club or whoever is in charge should have worked out some other alternative method for the camp. However they didnt; the club took the money and told the kids to come on. Now here is what makes it worse.. These kids show up to the pool and were asked to leave without giving a viable REASON to leave. Yes the law does state that private businesses have THE RIGHT TO REFUSE ANY SERVICE TO ANYONE WITHOUT JUSTIFYING BUT however these people were asked never to come back. For the people who are saying "yea of course the place is going to take their money; we're in a recession" that is a load of crap. If that place wanted their money they would have worked out some kind of deal and ask the leaders of the camp to arrange something where they come back in smaller groups or at a different time. I am not playing the racist card by any means but this whole scenerio screams it. The people from the camp were not only ask to leave but they were BANNED. Yes race does play an issue b/c this is obviously an mostly white club and you had mostly hispanic and black kids show up. It is very sad when children who are young and know nothing about racism or prejudice are involved. And for the members to make racial comments (if any were said) to the children or even around them is still unforgivable. Racism still exists b/c ppl instill it within their kids. These children are confused about what happen but sadly their parents will tell them why they were turned away. The club members who had their children with them prob said a few racial terms and their kids are now going to think that its ok to call people of that "complexion" those words. Sad but true. I would like to hear about the other camps that "supposedly" were turned away too. I will def be keeping an eye on this article
Maria Lewis
July 9th, 2009 - 8:58:08 PM
I am late to this story, hearing it on local news this evening (7/9) I am shocked and appalled and was relieved to research the websites and see that Sen. Spector has already addressed this disgusting behavior. i am 54 years old and white and I remember seeing firehoses used against peaceful people who just happened to be black and as little as I was I was appalled then without even knowing what the word meant. No one, no one human being has the right to deliberately and wilfully hurt the feelings of another human being for any reason.....and children at best!!!??? These arrogant, self-indulgent, inconsiderate and stupid people.....There is no shortage of stupid, no shortage of inconsiderate and the undeniable truth is that this is blatant obnoxious racism.....a stupid business decision at best to renege on a contract and crumble at the ignorant behavior of members......inexcusable, unacceptable and how stupid do they think we are as well? That as a city, a state and a country we would allow this behavior and not rise up against it? Makes my blood boil.....that poor precious child on the local news crying because he couldn't understand what happened? Unforgiveable cruelty....just God awful wrong and I am ashamed for us still.... May the full extent of every law be brought down against them....not even one Board member had the wisdom, compassion and sense of reason to do the right thing.....they should be shut down and fined for all time!!! Maria Lewis Somers Pt., NJ
Kirk Menard
July 9th, 2009 - 9:14:38 PM
I am a licensed private investigator and I am very troubled by this. Their website apparently has been taken offline while this is going on. They should sue.
laurei
July 9th, 2009 - 9:54:45 PM
Are you kidding? This is 2009, not 1959. Clearly the PA people have some issues to with and get over it. I guess you don't know that its that character that counts. How sad...
Chris
July 9th, 2009 - 10:00:59 PM
How sad that they would do this to these kids. These kids are out for summer looking to do something fun and they have to act like this towards kids. Its very sad and as far as whatever response they have...its BS. If it was over crowded then they should limit groups of kids to 15-30 min intevals so they can all share the pool.
karvictho
July 10th, 2009 - 12:20:37 AM
JoeShmo--- what are you rambling on about? Stick to the point please.... that being that the kids were turned away and it looks like they were discriminated against based on their skin color, not because they may come from a single parent household, nor because they were unruly or rude.
karvictho
July 10th, 2009 - 12:29:17 AM
netwatcher -- if a person of color came up to me and told me they were going into the armed services to defend America, I would show them your comment. Then I would ask that person if they still want to go defend an America which contains quite a few people who consider them inferior and not wanted. In fact, netwatcher, maybe only white people should go to battle for America, since according to you they are so much smarter, etc.
chupachupa
July 10th, 2009 - 12:33:01 AM
All the kids should have taken a dump; before they left this CESSPOOL of a swimming pool !
chupachupa
July 10th, 2009 - 12:34:06 AM
All the kids should have taken a dump(in the pool); before they left this CESSPOOL of a swimming pool !
Amari Lynn
July 10th, 2009 - 12:37:51 AM
Mark Joseph! You made some EXCELLENT points! And guess what, I KNOW YOU! And you know me. We went to college together and I grew up with your wife. Have her call me tomorrow once you've figured out who this is (it's pretty obvious, isn't it?). How funny finding a friend on here! I'm just glad it's someone whose posts I agree with! Wouldn't it be dreadful to find out that someone I've been arguing with in here was one of my colleagues or friends? LOL!
Pauline Small
July 10th, 2009 - 2:24:10 AM
Well Valley Club, you just made the news in Australia tonight. And we aren't fooled by your protests either: not once did I hear you say the pool was too small. 'Complexion'? Freud is alive and well.
Ben Sternberg
July 10th, 2009 - 2:57:05 AM
This story is nonsense! The Valley swimming club has a responsibility to its members only and should not buckle under the pressure from an irresponsible media that has no presentable evidence to make the claims that the club is racially biased. It is clear that there were two groups of non-minority children who were also disinvited so it is disingenuous to focus on a group of minority children since they are no better or worse than previous groups who were asked not to return. The club lived up to its responsibility and returned the kids money so I would say that the net effect is a group of kids who got a free swim day and leave it at that. Philadelphia is not a racist city and has the 4th largest African American population in the United States, so complaining about African American racism in a city that is predominantly African American is a lark and most likely has a hidden agenda behind it. Rehashing the 60's and the civil rights movement to prove a point no longer proves the point, we are a multiracial country and racism is not a factor like it was 50 years ago. Hey Philly! Why don't you open more public pools so city kids don't have to go to the suburbs to swim?
Concernedone
July 10th, 2009 - 4:32:30 AM
The world we live in is soooo scared of appearing racist. If you think about it some blacks are just as racist as some whites, but no one cares to talk about that. Blacks have black only entities such as the Black Entertainment channel, Black Miss America, Black caucuses, black only college funds.........and the list goes on forever. If all of you people are so concerned about equality, why doesn't this bother you. So what if the facility manager changed his mind after seeing that so many children, regardless of race or creed, disrupted the regular members. I wouldn't want to be anywhere with 65 kids at one time, especially a pool. Get real people. Reverse racism is running rampant too. Affirmative action has ruined has almost ruined this country and "Racist" witch hunts will certainly bury us all, black, white, purple and green.
sco
July 10th, 2009 - 4:47:13 AM
Amari Lynn Please oh please, go back and use my words to show me my racist ways....... I don't think I said anything racist, yet there you are calling me one because you can't defend your argument and I proved my point...that you are unwilling to reason and are just assuming racism based on one news report! You refuse to even consider the possibility that it was something else and I think that makes you a dangerous individual; the world does not need more closed-minded people who just jump to conclusions. The fact that you then don’t address me and try and say that I am denying my racism is childish, cowardly and just plain unfair…but I doubt you will even bother to consider it because you don’t want to think, just make assumptions. BTW, I never said that this is not racism…that is what I find funny…I simply think too many people jumped on this without all the information and decided that “it was on the internet, so t must be true”; that type of behavior is ridiculous in my opinion…again, I doubt you will be willing to concede even that. Never did I say that racism doesn’t happen, but there you go making an assumption about me (after telling me not to do that). I think racism is wrong but that it looses much of the impact when so many people just yell that this case was based on race prematurely. Now, many people are just going to gloss over and not listen the next time it happens because it is easy to just get sick of hearing about it in every case (and don’t tell me nobody has ever been wrongly accused of racism). If it is racism, them they should suffer from that (regardless of what some think, being a private club does not mean you can exclude someone based on race, check the laws).
karvictho
July 10th, 2009 - 5:14:49 AM
Ben Sternberg--would the story be nonsense if the group were jewish? Also, once again, they weren't turned away "just like other groups" they were sold the right to be there then had that right revoked because the color of their skin upset white members. I don't know what other info you have, but it seems like you are the only one who has it...... including the fact that racism doesn't exist in Philadelphia. Your misunderstandings are quite easy to correct with just a minor bit of searching the net. Rather than try to "deny" what actually happened by calling it all nonsense--- why not take the next step in social consciousness and embrace the truth of the matter so you can actually participate in resolving to, hopefully, prevent other Americans from being disenfranchised based on their color, ethnicity, age, weight, etc.
betty
July 10th, 2009 - 5:41:03 AM
What a shame that so many white people will not make it to heaven come judgement day. God will cast you to the pits of HELL and you will burn forever. Then you will see how it feels to burn forever and ever.
Concernedone
July 10th, 2009 - 5:54:42 AM
So Betty, you know how it feels to burn in hell forever and ever? I am sure that all of those Gangstas and Thugs that thank God and praise Jesus will be in line at Peter's Gate on judgment day too. I find it very funny to see or hear some Rapper that rhymes about drugs, guns and Bitches and Hos.....thank God or Jesus when they win some award. Hypocrites. But some white person doesnt want to be around a bunch of minority kids, they are going to Hell. Makes sense to me.....Not.
Concernedone
July 10th, 2009 - 5:55:24 AM
So Betty, you know how it feels to burn in hell forever and ever? I am sure that all of those Gangstas and Thugs that thank God and praise Jesus will be in line at Peter's Gate on judgment day too. I find it very funny to see or hear some Rapper that rhymes about drugs, guns and Bitches and Hos.....thank God or Jesus when they win some award. Hypocrites. But some white person who doesn't want to be around a bunch of minority kids, they are going to Hell. Makes sense to me.....Not.
Anonymous
July 10th, 2009 - 7:15:04 AM
FYI: TITLE II -- INJUNCTIVE RELIEF AGAINST DISCRIMINATION IN PLACES OF PUBLIC ACCOMMODATION Sec. 201. (a) All persons shall be entitled to the full and equal enjoyment of the goods, services, facilities, privileges, advantages, and accommodations of any place of public accommodation, as defined in this section, without discrimination or segregation on the ground of race, color, religion, or national origin.
Concernedone
July 10th, 2009 - 7:52:27 AM
FYI: This was a private (members only) facility, not a public accommodation to the best of my understanding. Why don't we question the admittance policies of The Miss Black America Pagent, women-only colleges, NFL, NBA... I don't go places I am not wanted (e.g., step shows, Freaknik, Sharpton rallies...) If people go to places to be with people of similar interest, backgrounds, socio-economic status...then that's is who they want to be around. Do you think that if a white family was asked to leave an all black establishment this would even be an issue. Talk about double standards.
Anonymous
July 10th, 2009 - 8:12:34 AM
FYI: Private Clubs and Religious Organizations Are Not Considered Public Accommodations Just as with the ADA, the HRA does not apply to private clubs or other establishments that are not open to the public. However, either a private club or a religious organization can be considered a public accommodation subject to HRA to the extent that it rents out space to another entity that runs a business, service or activity open to the public. Example: If a veteran's club rents out its hall for a wedding reception, it will be considered a public accommodation.
Jacie
July 10th, 2009 - 8:17:49 AM
Back in the 1970's, I believe, there was a hit single called "Love Train". It is time, rational - minded Americans got onboard and left the country's bigots entrenched in their racist attitudes (which they pass down to their children like family heirlooms).
Angelo
July 10th, 2009 - 8:52:26 AM
Isn't it funny how the defenders of the swim club sing the mantra of "It's a private club and the kids club got their money back"? Why did the manager take the clubs money in the first place? Why did staff, seeing their was over 60 kids, not take the time to talk to the kids club coordinator to discuss the potential "pool safety Issues" defenders of the swim club so lovingly latch on to? Did the kids imagine the remarks of the swim club members? Did the manager not say that the kids changed the "complexion" of the club? Ever so subtle.....right swim club defenders? The word complexion is the new racist code for the "N" word? The club has no persons of color that belong to it......right defenders of the swim club? Oh...and the "private club" excuse only counts if they don't take your money. Swim club defenders unite under the banner "The law is on our side". But there is the Rule of Law, and the Spirit of the Law. The Constitution says "All Men are Created Equal".....yet we needed a Civil Rights Bill in 1964 to give the right to Blacks to drink from the same water fountain, ride in the front of the bus, vote without intimidation, eat in the same restaurant? Yet the KKK still exists in this country, White Supremist have websites distibuting there manifestos, and the swim club defenders are in denial that racisim still exists? Oh...sorry....it doesn't exist as much.....LOL
Peanuts anyone?
July 10th, 2009 - 11:14:02 AM
I gotta say, that all-in-all, if we could get this kind of discourse out in the open and truly learn from it, wow what a state of grace we could build. But alas, once this dies down, for the most part, we will return to our respective worlds and move on to the next story... Black this... White this... Hispanic that... Gay something-or-other (the list goes on...) Pass the peanuts, let's all close our eyes and see the humanity of us all... Death comes to all, regardless of gender, race, preferences, etc., etc., and we ALL share that in common... Sooooo how's 'bout while living, we try a wee bit o' HUMAN kindness.... (sigh)
Jaytea
July 10th, 2009 - 11:22:18 AM
I can tolerate so much, I sense alot of racist whites and I see alot of my people bowing down to there racist ways, shuffing, smiling and even being agreeable to there racist ways, and thats Bullshit!! I'm not a racist black like Micheal would think of me, but a Brotha that's tired of these selfish evil beings that think there superior to every other being in this world, there history show's that. And if any black person say's that a black person is being a racist because he's tired of the Bullshit he or she is just bowing down to the injustice that our people have been put through for so many years in Amerikkka, those were kids trying to enjoy there summer vacation and they were hit with racism probaby for the first time in 2009.
camden
July 10th, 2009 - 12:02:07 PM
John Duesler,Valley Swim president (who pulled 65 black kids pool pass)- 1-Obama supporter 2-liberal peace activist 3-He set up a blood drive (Opositive) to celebrate Obama's inauguration 4-active in ''Peace Action Philadelphia'' 5-member of President Obama's "Organizing for America" program the swin club costs nearly 1000 dollars a year to join for a family of four and the club, along with the surrounding area, is largely JEWISH, not white christians / 'rednecks' ...LOL The non-thinking blacks in their usual emotional outburst of ignorant rage, ignore all the facts and imagine what they EXPECT OR WANTED to find.. this is actually great, as the' WHITE RACISTS' who got attacked and slammed in this case are 1-rich, 2-highly-liberal, 3-jewish, 4-Obama supporters, 5-who generally underwrite the black community and PAID FOR the entire civil rights MOVEMENT..hahahahAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!! this is so sweet, I cannot stop laughing.. hopefully now that these people got a taste of the villification that non-rich, non-liberal, non-jewish, working class whites have to put up with from ignorant blacks who burn down the city if they are unhappy, this WILL change some minds IMHO! GOOD JOB emotional, fly-off-the-handle, no-need-to-wait-for-facts ignorant blacks... you blasted away at your biggest, most sympathetic, FINANCIAL supporters because too many kids were in a small pool!! YOU REALLY ARE YOUR OWN WORST ENEMIES!!! PLEASE KEEP THIS UP!! lololololollol..HAHAHAHAHAHAA
chucky
July 10th, 2009 - 12:17:45 PM
BLACKS are so IGNORANT. until you know a) what the posted occupancy of the pool is b) can the occupancy tolerate 65 kids hoping into it at once c)HOW MANY KIDS DID THE DAYCARE CAMP HAVE PERMISSION TO BRING as opposed to the 65 that they trucked in... you CANNOT know whether this is legit or not, anyone who says you can know the deal, WITHOUT ALL THE FACTS, based on a sensationalistic story that omits all facts, is ignorant.
karvictho
July 10th, 2009 - 2:30:41 PM
Camden--"The not in my backyard syndrome" is often held by folks who give to charities as long as they are not in the neighborhood and don't involve bringing the charity cases into view. I don't know who lives in the neighborhood, only that white people complained loudly about black kids in the pool. If it is a "jewish" comspiracy against blacks, then maybe black Americans should re-consider supporting Israel's right to discriminate and steal from the Palestinians. In fact, maybe all Americans should reconsider their position on Israel. I mean, reallly, we have our own problems "clearly" and those of other people in other places really shouldn't take priority over that of Americans on American soil. Chucky-- the facts you omitted are that you are a "troll" seeking to inflame and change the course of this discussion. No luck this time buddy.... all the facts are plain -- whether you like it or not-- the biggest being the club sold the rights to the group to use the pool..... they didn't climb the fence or sneek in.... they paid and were accepted.... get a grip (up)chucky
Dave Marsh
July 10th, 2009 - 2:42:02 PM
IT'S 2009!!! NOT 1959!!!! I TEARED UP WHEN I READ THIS STORY AND SAW THE KID CRYING ON TV. OUR CHILDREN SHOULDN'T HAVE TO GO THROUGH THAT NONSENSE. I'M PISSED OFF THAT THERE ARE STILL HEARTLESS CRUEL PEOPLE OUT THERE THAT WOULD DO THIS TO LITTLE CHILDREN. THEY COULD HAVE AT LEAST DEALT WITH THE ADULTS OF THE CAMP RATHER THAN EXPOSE KIDS TO SUCH TREATMENT. I HOPE THE CLUB GETS SHUT DOWN TO SEND THE MESSEGFE THAT THIS WILL NOT BE TOLERATED. WE MUST PROTECT OUR CHILDREN FROM THIS.
Mike Hill
July 10th, 2009 - 3:17:23 PM
Nothing solved by this discussion. Vito v.s the Rest of the World. Solution: Fu@#em!, establish an LLC funded by celebrities, corporations and anyone else with money to spare regardless of color or race or orientation to help build a big Olympic-sized facility (year round indoor) in the communities where these kids are from. Maybe we'll get a few more world champion swimmers,water polo enthusiasts and divers who are much better people character-wise than Michael Phelps then replicate this process across the nation. The Day Camp show young multicultural kids even learning to play chess. Maybe the false liberals will even send their kids so they'll grow up to not be hypocrites and unlearn some of the bad habits of their parents. The Valley Swim Club will probably have to file for Chapter 11 eventually anyway with the present management. Sorry the present manager didn't check with the board first before accepting the check. Thank God for the others who came forward to help the kids. Some adults will never learn. They're too old and settled in their beliefs to change. So this is the way they will eventually die and leave this earth. Hey, maybe Oprah will make them an offer for the club and that will be the end of this. The Bill and Melinda Gates foundation could do it and they would be done! I wish I had the millions to do it. I'm working on it, though. That's the only reason I can think of to have money. To do good in this world before I leave. Thanks God for the blessings I do have. Jabez' s Prayer. The one post about the capacity of the pool is good math and science. Thanks for that one too. Logical!
Barbara
July 10th, 2009 - 3:18:50 PM
I saw a comment about Nile Swim Club, if anyone does not know the history of Nile Swim Club here it is. It was founded because the defunct Yeadon Swim Club would not allow blacks to join or use the facilities. The Yeadon Swim Club closed a few years ago and the Nile Swim Club is still there and planning for great things in the future.
Jaytea
July 10th, 2009 - 7:00:42 PM
Ignorant Evil selfish White Devils are all alike, they should'nt have accepted the money if they were not sure of the size of the group in the camp, and the comments used sure weren't appropriate, the counselors should have been talked to the day before in a more professional manner if there were to many kids, I'm sure they knew how many kids were in the camp, all these excuses are just fake excuses, these people are just plain ole bigots, we just can't sit back like were back in the early 1900's like "chucky" wants us to. There's alot of IGNORANT EVIL WHITE DEVILS AMONG US!!!!!
BigPimp
July 10th, 2009 - 8:27:00 PM
Anytime you blacks want to go back to Africa, I will personally buy as many airplane tickets as I can to send you there. I am sure there would be plenty of others who would agree.
swimparent
July 10th, 2009 - 8:58:20 PM
First of all the cost of a membership at The Valley Club is not $1000 for a family of 4. Secondly at least half of the members are middle class families from NE Philadelphia. Thirdly why has Ms. Wright failed to mention that on Monday she contacted another swim club and was told the group was too large for safety's sake. The suggestion was made that she split the group but Ms. Wright said she wouldn't do that because of the cost of the buses. Why then on Tuesday would she alert the media and claim racial discrimination after receiving another opinion about saftey concerns with a group of 65 swimmers?
Jaytea
July 10th, 2009 - 9:55:41 PM
These European Americans are just evil racist devils that are just spoiled into thinking there superior to there maker and everbody else, anybody with common sense can see that is plain ole racism, what a bunch of silly morons, we have to teach black, brown kids to watch, listen and learn from this experience.
freethinker
July 10th, 2009 - 10:50:22 PM
To all of you out there who agree that this may not have been a race thing and that blacks are just jumping to conclusions you gotta read this link! This is from a southern white guy, he's a writer on this subject. If you can't open it just post back and I'll try copying and pasting. http://www.facebook.com/timjwise?__a=1#/note.php?note_id=96441029503&ref=mf
Soul G
July 10th, 2009 - 11:07:30 PM
To BigPimp. NAW, NIGGA...Y DONT YOU TAKE YO ASS BACK TO EUROPE FIRST! This is MY country, built by the sweat and blood of MY people. Yo great-grandaddy raped and had a bunch of babies with my great-grandmomma so thats why I'm all mixed up anyhow, they wudn't take me back in Africa if I tried to go back cause I'm all mixed up with yo stank blood! This is the same story for ALL my BLACK people. So shut yo ASS up! Talking all big and bad. Bet you woulnt talk that way to my face! And y you gotta a black name? BigPimp! Erybody knows only niggas is Big pimps! Y don you call yourself Billy Cracker or Bubba Honkey? Das more like it.
Concernedone
July 11th, 2009 - 4:26:08 AM
Soul G exemplifies the double standard attitude of most blacks. YOUR people were sold into slavery by "YOUR" people by the way. Why is slavery still an issue now. Minorities, especially blacks, have been afforded every opportunity to better themselves and their families e.g., affirmative action, negro college fund or as Soul G would probably call it the "Nigga College fund", subsidized housing, WIC....... Yet it seems no matter what has been done to level the playing field it is never enough. It is never the black man's fault. Blame it all on whitey, right. Check the statistics on the following by race: crime rates, prison population, birth rates to unwed mothers, teenage pregnancy rates and non-high school graduate rates. You will see that blacks top the list in everyone. That is whiteys fault too, right. I get tired of my tax dollars being wasted on people that have no incentive to better themselves by getting a job, an education and stable family life because they would make less money from the Government. Most blacks would rather live the Hip Hop Gangsta lifestyle with $1000 rims on a $5 car, with three babies mama's and 10 bastard children. Just an example I observe on a daily basis. Soul G let me know if you need translation on any these big words. Do you also realize you are the first and only one on this post that used "Nigga or Nigger"? If whitey used those words you would probably call Sharpton or Rev. Jackson to hold some double standard rally. That is true ignorance.
elle
July 11th, 2009 - 6:55:17 AM
in Re: to anon posting: Elle-why is your opinion more valid than others? I didn’t realize the comments were limited to only those you agree with. I never even stated what my opinon is. And why is it more valid than some others? I would say because I live about 10 minutes away from where it happened and have first hand experienced and seen a lot of that same BS from the burbs outside of Philly. I was commenting on the fact that sco wanted to pick a fight so bad with Amari Lynn, that he pathetically had to call up his wife and get her to start attacking her too. Sharing opinons is one thing- being obnoxious and rude to get a rise out of people is another.
Cyrus
July 11th, 2009 - 8:02:25 AM
I've lived in eight different states; west coast, midwest, and east coast. I can tell you with 100% certainty, when 60 inner-city black kids show up anywhere it's going to be a disaster, every time. There's a reason white people, hispanics, jews, asians, etc. all avoid the 'hood...and it's not because of the amount skin pigment a certain people have. Black culture in America has a behavior problem. Black culture is violence, bullying, taunting, nominal wealth, irresponsibility, casual sex, self pity, and denial. You know it's true. It's only peer pressure and fear of being labeled a racist that keeps you from admitting it. That makes you an enabler. Think about it...
Soul G
July 11th, 2009 - 8:33:39 AM
To Concernedone, Funny you only focused on the way I write and not on what I was saying. Anyway that was just a conversation betwene me and BigPimp so why u tripin? And just so you know I'm not ignorant, I know how to write proper. I'm only 16 and I'm gonna be a senior in high school. Have you seen how most high school kids be writing and textin to each other? Your white ones too. My moms be trying to get me to write and talk proper all the time but its just a cool thang, u know. White kids be doing it too. I mean...the caucasian children also engage in this type of conversation and slang way of speaking as well because it is what's considered cool at the moment...was dat proper enough for you? Anyway, I'm jus keeping it real for now but I plan to go to college so I know I wont be talking this way 4-ever! And also, my moms gotta college degree, I know my dad and he's worked for the same company for 20 years or somethin. You racist white people stereotype SO bad. Ya'll act like the Obama's are the only black people like that! I know so many! I actually know more of them than I know street blacks, like ya'll be doggin out...and youl NEVER understand their problems and that they have been caused by history. And you need to re-read history. African's may have sold some into slavery but they didn't make whites keep doing the injustices that were done even a century after slavery ended. And I don't see Africans as my people anyway. Yeah, they a part of me, or I'm a part of them...but if you saw me youd see that I'm mixed up...even tho both my parents are black. Wonder how that happened? I will say sorry for using the word "nigga". But BigPimp was calling all black people niggas but just in so many words. White folks think that as long as you ain't saying that word, you OK...and you can say and do whatever and it ain't racist. Well, guess what? ITS RACIST.
Jaytea
July 11th, 2009 - 8:35:05 AM
First off "Concernedone" if "Soul G" exemplifies the double standard attitude of most young blacks today is because of these white devil record company's paying these rappers by the N-word, and that so-called "bigpimp" wanna be black, he knows the biggest pimps were the slave owners or masters and today it's the CEO's of these record companys my brotha, don't let your white homies fool you, there great grandfathers,grandmothers aunts and uncles were probably members of the biggest Terrorist Organization in the world!!! But we should'nt get off the subject of these children being humiliated by this Jim Crow style of racism in 2009, I wonder what there going to talk about when school starts, what happened on there summer vacation???
joeshmo
July 11th, 2009 - 9:00:38 AM
JayTea, There is a situation where a group was asked to leave due to occupancy issues. If anything, I think that this exhibits the state of anger towards whites - +Nobody has been disrespected except the owner of the pool. (I.e. The owner apologized and returned the money) + I'm not sure I understand your post - you referred to "White Devil" record companies. In fact, record companies dont write songs - the rappers do. The Record company wants to make money, and they can't do this unless the PUBLIC buys records. My point is that you sound ignorant. I suggest that you refrain from posting because, in doing so, you are proving your opposition's point. Period.
JoeShmo
July 11th, 2009 - 9:12:18 AM
And also - I get a kick out of 20 year olds that think that they are entitled to what they please because of slavery - (a) 100% of blacks today didnt experience slavery whatsoever (b) I'm white and my ancestors didnt own slaves - should I be second class citizen? (c) Cyrus is correct in the sense that people need to worry about themselves. Existing today requires hard work, and some people just don't think that they should be subject to these necessities.
Lesley
July 11th, 2009 - 10:48:19 AM
If there was a restriction on the number of kids in the pool, then that would have been discussed upfront between the club management and the camping staff. It is clear that no such discussion took place. Additionally, it is usual to let the camping staff and campers know that the lifeguards are in charge and all users of the pool must obey pool rules. I have been to many pools in my life and it is usually a management problem if pool users violate pool rules. Normally, misbehaving pool users are asked to take a "time out" to think about their behavior, then allowed to reenter the pool after a while. If there is egregious misbehavior, pool users are told to leave. It is clear by the statements, remarks, return of the check and disingenuous comments that this club, in general, has a fear of minorities. Sad. These are just kids, just like any other kids. Kids need to know the rules, the rules need to be enforced, and everything could have been just fine. However, club members panicked and management panicked. Racism is not rational, it is emotional. Management is to blame for this fiasco. This is a lesson lost for the club members and a bitter experience for the campers. It is clear that the members of this club panicked. The remark from a club member that "campers might hurt my child" did not in any way address a general safety issue, but a fear of minorities.
joeshmo
July 11th, 2009 - 11:07:46 AM
Lesley - The pool asked the camp to reduce the # of kids in half, but it was said that they would try to accomodate them. When they couldn't do it - they were called racists for lawsuit purposes If inappropriate remarks were made by MEMBERS then the POOL's reputation shouldnt be dragged through the mud and it certainly doesnt deserve a lawsuit. So Please clarify how the POOL has been RACIST in any way. p.s. Im giving 10-1 odds that you dont respond because, frankly, their is no logical response. Why? Because Anytime a white-black conflict occurs, blacks are the first to scream "White Devils" You'll likely do the same IF you do respond.
Lesley
July 11th, 2009 - 11:08:54 AM
All links to the Valley Swim Club have been severed, in an effort to manage public outrage over this incident. They will probably change their name next.
Lesley
July 11th, 2009 - 11:27:42 AM
Joeshmo, Of course I will respond. If what you say is true and I have no reason to doubt you, then the proper thing would have been to have a discussion with the camping staff to agree to bring the children to the pool in two groups at different times. These types of accomodations, as well as other options, are done all the time. The fact that there was no discussion of alternatives to address the club's concerns and to continue to offer the pool to the campers is a red flag. Like I said originally, I have been to many pools in my life and I have seen the wide range of human behavior within and between groups. But, I have never heard, until now, of any group being denied paid pool access over its first time at a pool. The series of events, including a hastily-called pool board meeting, is the second red flag. It is true that the swim club has a right to rent its facilities, or not, to anyone it pleases. But these circumstances and events clearly show bias and yes, racism.
joeshmo
July 11th, 2009 - 11:39:41 AM
Lesley - You have once again shown your ignorance - The arrangement was discussed between the camp and the pool. The camp was unwilling to split the camp into two groups because of the costs of the second bus involved. The camp said that it could definitely support 20-30 kids, but 65 was uncertain. Everyone wants to make it into a "white devil" situation, and people like yourself hop on the bandwagon without the facts. Grow up.
Cyrus
July 11th, 2009 - 11:43:38 AM
Lesley, you are incorrect about racism not being rational, at least with respect to sub-Saharan Africans and their descendants. Let's look at the definition of racism, "The belief that race accounts for differences in human character or ability and that a particular race is superior to others." Now let's consider sub-Saharan Africans and their decedents. Prior to white people traveling to sub-Sahara Africa not one single group of black people had any form of written language. None of them had domesticated any animals. They did not use tools or cultivate crops. They displayed virtually no forms of organization or common interest. They seemingly had no foresight, no ability to plan, no system of justice and no code of honor. Their way of life of rape, murder, theft, disease, starvation, and general chaos. Now fast forward to today. Things are still virtually the same in Africa. But let's not on focus on that. Consider their decedents that live in other countries. Many countries in the world have black populations. Canada, USA, France, England, Spain, Brazil, several Caribbean countries, etc. In every case those black populations account for an overwhelmingly disproportionate amount of the host county's violent crime and drug abuse. In the USA, approximately 2% of the population (black males between the age 14 and 40 who are not in prison) are responsible for over 50% all violent crime. Download the statistics from the Dept of Justice if you don't believe me. Over 90% of interracial crime is black on white. White on black violent crime is almost nonexistent. 7 out of 10 black children are born to unwed mothers. In most major metropolitan areas less than half of black student graduate from highschool. No other minority even comes close to these numbers. Now go back to the definition of racism and read it. If you still think that racism towards sub-Saharan Africans and their decedents isn't RATIONAL then you are either delusional or dishonest. It's not in vogue, it may not be pleasant, it's not fun, but it most certainly is rational. You desire to associate racism with irrationality has more to do with your desperate need to be in agreement with your peers. You'll overlook almost any amount of factual data and/or experiences to avoid censorship by your peers. By doing so you are an enabler to black people and their dysfunctional, counter-productive, self-destructive culture.
Cyrus
July 11th, 2009 - 11:53:44 AM
I forgot to mention...virtually every other society on the planet came up with their own form of written language, figured out how to cultivate crops, domesticated animals, developed some form of common interest, and naturally honored the family unit. Except for maybe the Aborigines in Australia....whoops!
joeshmo
July 11th, 2009 - 12:07:04 PM
Our country is a sad place at the moment - Blacks supposedly want the benefits of equality but are unwilling to deal with the responsibilities of it. This is a perfect example - the pool works to accomodate the camp, but, when its not able to do this, the camp is the first to call media outlets to scream "racism". A few shots of kids crying (who cry 15x/per day), and the camp has morons protesting outside with signs, and the business is ruined.
Lesley
July 11th, 2009 - 12:08:56 PM
Joeshmo, OK, I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Evidently there was a discussion about accomodating the club's concerns in advance. The campers violated the terms, the club returned the money, and the campers were asked not to return to the club. End of story. However, this simply cannot be the case. The club knew the number of campers coming to the pool in advance and would have made the necessary arrangements. The club's board would have known all the particulars of any rental of their facilities. If there was no mutual agreement between the camp and the club in advance, then the check would have been returned and there would have been no story at all. What you are suggesting is that the camp willfully disregarded their previous arrangement with the club and just "showed up" with 65 kids. This makes no sense. Nowhere in the chain of events has this been reported.
joeshmo
July 11th, 2009 - 12:33:09 PM
That is not what I said. I read in the media that the camp was told that it was uncertain if the pool could accomodate 65 kids during the day. The pool suggested splitting into to different time slots - however, the CAMP could not do this because (a) extra costs for the busing of kids (b) time conflicts with other scheduled events. In reponse, the pool agreed to try to accomodate the kids rather than lose the business. While this WAS a mistake, it was not "racist" or lawsuit-worthy. Frankly, if I were a business-owner, I would have second-thought about allowing a mult-racial group into my business. Any kind of simple disagreement and people will call you a "racist" - that is common sense, certainly not a predisposition against blacks.
Lesley
July 11th, 2009 - 12:44:41 PM
This, from a recent news report. "The [Valley Club] parents were standing there with their arms crossed," Wright recalled yesterday. "I was hearing comments like, 'They won't be back here.' [Club president John] Duesler told me not to worry, that he would handle it." Apparently, the way Duesler handled it was to refund Wright's check and tell her that the club membership overthrew his decision "by voting to disinvite us," Wright said. Well, that's news to Valley Club member Jim Flynn. Standing in front of the club - which was padlocked yesterday - Flynn seethed over the way he said Duesler has handled things."To my knowledge, the members were not involved in any of the decisionmaking," says Flynn, 41, a Fox Chase resident who pays a $700 membership for a family of four. "As far as I know, all we recommended was to change the time that [the campers] came, from the afternoons to a nonpeak time. We never recommended to disinvite them."
Jaytea
July 11th, 2009 - 12:47:11 PM
JOESHMO!!!! I was making a point, you were not involved in. Thank you.
elle
July 11th, 2009 - 12:50:17 PM
cyrus- You are trying to rationalize racism by throwing facts at us. Racism is much more emotional than that. And human emotions, for the most part, are not rational. and this statement you made, "You desire to associate racism with irrationality has more to do with your desperate need to be in agreement with your peers. You’ll overlook almost any amount of factual data and/or experiences to avoid censorship by your peers. By doing so you are an enabler to black people and their dysfunctional, counter-productive, self-destructive culture." , is rude, ignorant and disgusting. I don't care how much factual data you have, or how many degrees you have. You are extremely racist- and I know you think that it is justified by facts... but people who have emotions, morals and feelings can recognize that is wrong, no matter how many statistics you come up with.
elle
July 11th, 2009 - 12:57:54 PM
This, from a recent news report. “The [Valley Club] parents were standing there with their arms crossed,” Wright recalled yesterday. “I was hearing comments like, ‘They won’t be back here.’ [Club president John] Duesler told me not to worry, that he would handle it.” Apparently, the way Duesler handled it was to refund Wright’s check and tell her that the club membership overthrew his decision “by voting to disinvite us,” Wright said. Well, that’s news to Valley Club member Jim Flynn. Standing in front of the club - which was padlocked yesterday - Flynn seethed over the way he said Duesler has handled things.”To my knowledge, the members were not involved in any of the decisionmaking,” says Flynn, 41, a Fox Chase resident who pays a $700 membership for a family of four. “As far as I know, all we recommended was to change the time that [the campers] came, from the afternoons to a nonpeak time. We never recommended to disinvite them.” ^^^^^ thank you for posting that Lesley. I think we all can agree that the president of the club, no matter what he did or why he did it, was in the wrong. He has been chosen to represent the club, and therefore they are, at the least, somewhat responsible for what he did and said.
joeshmo
July 11th, 2009 - 1:14:51 PM
Lesley - This (according to you) was the situation - +In the pool - There are 50+ members who pay $700 for a family & there is a camp that pays $1900 for 65 children For $ reasons, The "members" are the ones that Duesler needs to keep happy. If I was a member, and there wasnt room in the pool because 65 kids who paid 1/20 of what I did, I would be unhappy (nothing relating to race). Basically, they didnt PAY enough to make the difficulties in scheduling worthwhile - so why bother? This is the real world - if you are a valuable customer you get conveniences. If not, you have to deal with inconvenience. I'm sure that you will reference the contract; however, they tried to accomodate them and it didnt work. It isnt worth spending hours to find the perfect time slot for a camp that is paying 1/20th of the stated membership. +For example, I have on many flights - sometimes the flight is delayed and I have been inconvenienced. This is not racist and the airline doesn't hate "whitey", it is a reality. If I had the resources to order a private jet - I would eliminate many of these inconveniences. Its just rediculous, that people (white and black) think white people sit and calculate the ways to be unfair toward minorities. Most (if not all) issues are created by the so called "rap" images that children view of drugs, murder, crime. Certain elements such as "ebonics" allow blacks to remain rediculous whereas I would be called an idiot if I couldnt speak proper english.
Lesley
July 11th, 2009 - 1:18:39 PM
Cyrus, As you well know, facts and data must be interpreted to be meaningful. But let me try and address some of your concerns about Sub-Saharan culture: 1. There is evidence of written (symbolic and pictographic) language from Sub-Saharan Africa. Geez would be one example. 2.Animal domestication and farming existed in Sub-Saharan Africa (Bantu) 3. Ife culture in SW Nigeria demonstrated organized government, city planning and detailed bronze art.
Lesley
July 11th, 2009 - 1:22:43 PM
Joeshmo, It has been interesting discussing this incident with you. It appears that you have more on your agenda than I can address at this time. Best regards, Lesley
joeshmo
July 11th, 2009 - 1:25:44 PM
Elle - What people dont understand - racism is unavoidable. People (black, white, latino) inherently are hesitant of people different than themselves. However, in this country, we have arrived at a point where everyone has the opportunity to educate and advance themselves - for some it may be more or less difficult. Unfortunately, the black population in this country believe that its "cool" to broadcast themselves with guns, drugs, and criminal behavior. What image do you think that this conveys?
Lesley
July 11th, 2009 - 1:26:24 PM
Elle, Thank you for your comments. Best regards, Lesley
Cyrus
July 11th, 2009 - 1:27:11 PM
Elle, damn me for letting facts get in the way? You are right, human emotions are typically not rational. Let's be honest about who's being emotional in this conversation (hint: it's not me). As for the statement I made...it might be rude and disgusting since those area function of the recipient but it is in no way ignorant. I'm really quite informed about how and why people conform to group-think and peer pressure. You and Lesley would probably have been the worst kind of racists back when being a racist was the norm...now it's cool to be an "open minded" liberal (but still lives out in the suburbs). Admit it, if 65 screaming corn-rowed black kids moved into your neighborhood or filled your child's school room you'd be horrified, and rightfully so. Because they'd &*^% everything up, just like they always do. I have morals and feelings. I just don't let them get in the way of reality. When you support black people every time they throw a tantrum about things that don't matter...you help them to ignore the things that DO matter...like the never-ending catastrophe that is their own culture. You are an enabler; part of the problem. Normal people don't want to be around black people because of how they behave. There shouldn't be any shame in that. Their behavior is abominable. But what's their incentive to change if you keep rewarding their outbursts and blaming the people that are just trying to avoid disaster??????
joeshmo
July 11th, 2009 - 1:29:21 PM
Lesley, You can't discuss it because its logical. The reason for rejecting the camp is clearly a $ issue, not a race issue. However, Im sure that you will continue to hate the "white devil".
Lesley
July 11th, 2009 - 1:34:21 PM
Cyrus, So much rage and pain. Lesley
Lesley
July 11th, 2009 - 1:37:03 PM
Joeshmo, I will leave you and Cyrus to broadcast your clear and logical conclusions to others. It's been interesting. Lesley
MURAD
July 11th, 2009 - 2:09:30 PM
THIS is the basic response of the blacks to this incident distilled down into ONE singular statement- "DEM BABIEZ I DUN seen on teeveez was cryin, dis is proof, DIS CRYUN be all dah proof I needs, dont say dis not be rascism ...damn racist whitey, mudda afrika we built the americuh.. dem BABBIEZ BE CRYUN WHITEY!!!.. we is mad and as long as we is mad at whitey we gets to fo-getz that each day a dozen black thugs killz each otha in philly alone..give me moniez whitey!!!! " ONCE AGAIN.. the preceding is a condensed version of the 'black'postion on this matter.. Now, the 'white' position on this 'news' story condensed down to one statement- "I dont beleive the news story was even slightly accurate as it reported FROM A FATHER WHO WAS NOT AT THE POOL, that the lifeguard told the kids ''we dont allow minorities'', which is about as likely to be true, in 2009 Philly, as a pig flying out of my ass.. we need actual facts which the 'story' does not either offer or seek to find out to assess this matter, and based on the size of the group of campers, relative to the 110,000 gallon size of the pool, the most likely factor the be in play here is that a group of 65 people ALONE exceed the legal occupancy of the pool in question.." NOW, these are the two basic arguments ONE is from a emotional, dysfunctional group, that at a moments notice is willing to beleive almost anything that is negative about another group, but ALWAYS has a excuse ready for anything negative about their own group, and the SECOND is from a group that is the only population on earth to ever fight to free a alien people from bondage (today in africa, you can still by a child slave in african sudan, or in african-populated HAITI- AFRICAN AMERICANS were SOLD into slavery by fellow Bantu africans, african bantus today use the pygmie population of africa as SLAVES http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pygmies#Slavery ETC...) YOU FIGURE OUT WHICH DISCRITION SUITS WHICH GROUP..
sco
July 11th, 2009 - 2:38:06 PM
Elle, Your quote “I was commenting on the fact that sco wanted to pick a fight so bad with Amari Lynn, that he pathetically had to call up his wife and get her to start attacking her too. Sharing opinons is one thing- being obnoxious and rude to get a rise out of people is another.” Is great. I love your sanctimonious brand of hate…it serves you well. It is ok when you, or someone you agree with, is rude mean and picking a fight but not ok for someone you disagree with, hey? You did not even give an opinion!, so why post? Because you wanted to be obnoxious and rude. If you take the time to actually go back and read the posts, Amari lynn started by calling someone a “ selfish, sell-out, stereotyping snob”, among other things but you don’t seem to think that is a problem because she is agreeing with you……I know I will never get you to understand that your comments and the fact that you even posted a comment about me is just as rude and trying just as hard, to pick a fight as anything I did, but it is; and that is why you are worse than me, you are too thick headed, small minded and selfish to get it. So many here are filled with hate and venom for those who don’t agree with each other that you are willing to overlook your actions. You want to make a change in the world? Try starting with yourself, the one person you can change. I also love how you posted that facts don’t matter in this case, wow what a maroon as bugs bunny used to say. That is just as stupid as those idiots who keep posting that the poor children are crying and that is why it is wrong. WTF is that argument? My kid doesn’t understand why he can’t stay up all night and cries when I put him to bed at a decent time? Does that mean we are all bad parents for doing something our kids don’t understand sometimes? Bad things happen to good people….go complain to God not scream racism based on that, get some facts and use your brains people. I know that seems like to much to ask from this group of fuc**** c***s.
beyonce cracklins
July 11th, 2009 - 3:04:06 PM
dem babiez be cryin = racism no wonder these idiots have amost 100% failed communities even when ONLY blacks live in the community... the more black a community is, the WORSE it is FOR BLACKS.. that tells you something.. DEM BABIEZ BE CRYUN!! LOLOLoLlolol
Lesley
July 11th, 2009 - 5:50:15 PM
sco, beyonce cracklins, cyrus, joeshmo, Joeshmo is right, there is a financial issue in the Valley Swim case. I acknowlege this. Are businesses permitted to break the law to resolve financial issues? Can businesses revoke a contract for any reason? "She (the camp director) said Duesler gave no reason for the refund except that the membership no longer wanted the children at the pool." and the Valley Swim Club issued this statement (in part), "We had originally agreed to invite the camps to use our facility, knowing full well that the children from the camps were from multi-ethnic backgrounds. Unfortunately, we quickly learned that we underestimated the capacity of our facilities and realized that we could not accommodate the number of children from these camps. All funds were returned to the camps and we will re-evaluate the issue at a later date to determine whether it can be feasible in the future." The Valley swim club knew in advance that there would be 60+ children in the pool, accompanied by 8 camp supervisors. According to all present during the 90 minutes the children were there, there were no incidents or altercations. It was observed, however, that club members asked that their children leave the pool when the campers entered the pool. You say that there is no basis for a lawsuit and no lawbreaking. I say there is. That is why the United States has courts that take these matters, weigh the evidence, and render their decisions. As for sco, beyonce cracklins and cyrus. You three are beyond contempt. It's been interesting hearing from you. Regards, Lesley
Lesley
July 11th, 2009 - 5:56:32 PM
and MURAD, Forgot to express my contempt for you as well. Regards, Lesley
sco
July 11th, 2009 - 6:49:10 PM
Lesley, "You three are beyond contempt." You are sooo sweet. I guess that is what makes you such an enlightened individual. You have such contempt for others yet try to come here and say you are on the side of "right" because you oppose racism....what a crock. You are like all the other lemmings, full of hate that you can't admit to by being so willing to hate a group that is acceptable, such as people who are maybe racist (even if you don’t have all the facts) …….you are a stupid hate filled piece of sh** bit**. I hate you and all the other idiots who act so smug and can’t reason or make a valid point, yet argue anyway to show their hate and ignorance. You and the rest of your American Taliban can keep going out and scaring people into doing what you want no matter if it is logical or not and think you made a difference because people do what you say is right. You are much more divisive than people who can at least be honest by saying they hate others. Go fu** yourself and the horse you rode in on (I am going to end the note by being so ironic and saying) regards!! P.S. nice way to not just let it go and repost to one person that you missed of your contempt for them….lovin the hate you got…
realist
July 11th, 2009 - 8:50:37 PM
i shuuder to think how many horrible diseases infest that pool now , short of cleansing it with napalm , it should be declared unfit for human habitation...
Anonymous
July 11th, 2009 - 9:17:20 PM
the one fact that is TRUE IS.. the LEAST of the problems that the black community has right now is WHITE DISCRIMINATION. If tommorow the entire white population left philly and turned over the keys to the black population. it would be Haiti within 73 hours... blacks create less than 2% of their own communities employment, they cannot get along with one another even in a exclusively black community, they require almost ALL govt /city jobs for their population exclusively, and they pay a tiny pct of the taxes to fund the community, govt jobs.. you have to go to africa or Haiti to find random street violence, poverty and disruption to rival US black communities.. blacks worst problem is that they need whites and ACCESS to white communities just to survive.. thus to them, ANY slight disagreement which in the most remote, superstitious manner suggests that whites are not allowing them total unfettered access to even whites private property, is viewed parasitically as a survival threat by blacks, whos destruction, and biggest fear, is the black community relying on the abilities of its OWN members.. if you totaled up all the labor and work performed by every african slave in the USA it would not be worth the near total destruction of even ONE of the great US cities blacks have flooded into and turned into savage slums, since the civil rights act.. remember that until the civil rights act, ST. LOUIS , DETRIOT, PHILLY, these were all elegant, advanced, world class cities.. visitors came from Europe to see St. Louis... today it is a desperate all black slum that blacks and their crime wave chased all other peoples from.. truckers are allowed to expend extra gas to DRIVE AROUND AND NOT ENTER St. Louis... you cannot get a average black to listen to reason as that lack of reason is why they are literally destroyers of cities.. it is like talking to a bowling ball. (leslie- typical, no refutation of fact, just hostility,, no wonder you are so sought out to move in next door... in croatia we would never allow what the US lets you do to ruin things.. we would solve this)
Jaytea
July 12th, 2009 - 1:30:05 PM
As far as I can tell by the negative comments by the majority of these European Americans, there's alot of hatred and racist beliefs that still exist about blacks in america today, it's the way this was was handled 'setup', the director should have asked the counselors how many kids there were in the first place if the pool could'nt accomodate a large crowd they should've known that, and the way the media qouted this greedy director was all that was needed to ignite the situation. It would change the "Complexion"??? what if Sasha and Malia would have been one of those black kids? It seems like too many whites are watching to much T.V.. instead of getting out and facing reality and using racist stereotypical views to protect themselves from being labled a racist bigot on this issue, which has always been a cover up for not being called a straight racist, the matter should have been handled from the start but instead it's blown out of proportion with alot of negative views of blacks, this should be a wake up call, some whites think they know everything about blacks, I've been to college, I have kids in college and relatives in the armed forces and college, and were all from the hood, so don't think you know everything about about Black Americans, because we could no alot about White Americans by studing some of these comments being made, it's ridiculous dealing with a situation like this, the adults should have handled this in a more mature way instead of letting it get out of control by the Media, with all these comments about blacks being violent,ignorant and hostile, when other countries call Americans violent ignorant infidels there not refering to just one America, if this country wants to be as one we need to stop the hatered and racist views of each other and maybe whites wouldn't be labeld as White Devils or Hate Mongers.
white devil
July 12th, 2009 - 2:01:16 PM
I will accept falsely being labelled as a white devil if blacks will accept in return fixing their own community which is a total disaster, BEFORE they go happily, giddily looking for mean whites to villify over nonsense.. there are literally blacks kids slaughtering each other and other races all over the nation today alone to a exptent that NO ONE else can remotely match.. yet instead of addressing this nonstop crapfest their kids unleash, whats needed most?... run around looking for 'white racists' No one hates you... we as simply sick of your shit, and that is a totally seperate thing from hate. The black community needs to work on ITSELF and knock off these phony attempts to constantly run around picking fights with whites a playing a drama victim. PLEASE.. keep this up, i do not care, but have the decency, if whites are SO BAD and unturstworthy to saty in your own damn racist communities where a black man cannot safely set foot outside his own home, without another black man trying to rob, stab or shoot him... fuck you and your racist shit.. the time is now long past for this garbage, and you need to learn the principle of 'DIMIINISHING RETURNS'.. I am not your pappy, Im am not doing the daily shootings in your locale, I am not the one whos kids speak plantation slang 7 generations after the last family member left the deep south.. fix your shit or go fuck yourself and stay in your own area
karvicthohotmail.com
July 12th, 2009 - 2:10:58 PM
Jaytea---unfortunately it is incredibly hard to have a real & constructive dialogue with many of the people who have posted here because they clearly have 1) not read the news story which is evident because of all the made-up facts they have tried to use to make a point; and 2) because they are unable to actually dialogue and debate the issue (due to a lack of education both recent and historical--- and sheer lack of ability). Unfortunately, your statements are most likely not reaching these folks, and too bad. Too bad for America which is on a downward spiral in large part because these same folks waste everyone's time and money being divisive, argumentative and disrepectful. Don't let this or them drag you down....
ebil whaite honkey mofo
July 12th, 2009 - 2:34:42 PM
when i was a kid there were no 'groids in our town , there was no crime , everyone got along ... now that the liberals run things they are 2% of the population here and crime has risen over 300% in the last 2 years ... robbery rape murder carjackings muggings , you name it we have it now... we had a local stream-fed pool you could use 9 months of the year , never had any skin , throat , or eye problems... now that we have the 'groids here the pool is dangerous to use , they shit and piss in the 'feed' end of the pool and laugh when the 'honkey mofos' get fed up and leave... the number of infections and weird diseases has skyrocketed as a result... i wish there was somewhere safe to move , but the filtty beasts are everywhere...
latecomer
July 12th, 2009 - 3:07:50 PM
Oh my! I just took the last 45 minutes and read this story and all of the posts (I even wrote notes) and I'm really in shock right now! There seem to be three groups of people posting on this article. 1). People who are angered by the story and agree that racism was either totally or partially the motivation behind the actions of the swim club. 2). People who are insiting that racicism had nothing to do with what happened and are angered by group 1's accusations of racism. 3). People who are just trying to be shocking or inflamatory and who appear to be saying things that they would never have the nerve to say in person. Interestingly enough groups 2 and 3 seem to be merging as time goes on in their attitudes and communication strategies. Group 1 posts seem to be dissipating probably from frustration. All I can say is that neither groups have said things that are 100% false. Meaning that there has been some truth in a little of everything that each group has said (except the posters from group 3, they just seem to be trying to add fuel to the fire by saying things that are blatantly racist). But what I have noticed is that the inflamatory language, the cursing, the volatile anger seems to be more prevalent in the posters from groups 2 and 3. But it is group 1 that is being accused of being from an angry group. Yet I've read very little profanity in the posts from group 1. I haven't read anything that could be interpreted as hate speak from group1. Yes there have been some refernces to "white devil" but other than that the f .u. and stay the hell away from me type statements have been coming from groups 2 and 3. So from this I can deduct that the members of group 1 are the people who do desire to work together as a nation, all as Americans but who want members from group 2 to acknowledge that their responsibilty is to admit that there is a breakdown in race relations in America and that all Americans are needed to address it and resolve it. Group 2 seems to have this "you're on your own" type attitude and doesn't view the problems of group 1 as having anything to do with them. This is very telling as to where we are socially as Americans today, in 2009. As you hopefully tell, I am purposefully and carefully trying to not state race or use the word racist (other than when I described group 3, they left me with no other option) because I am not trying to take a side or join in this debate. But I am curious to know if the members from groups 2 and 3 had an opportunity to have an audience with the President, would they have the courage to voice these things? I am going to send President Obama a link to this very page, I know it a long shot but I truly hope he reads it. I believe that race relations in America do need to be addressed during his administration and this incident in Philly and this forum is a prime example as to why.
Jaytea
July 12th, 2009 - 3:55:20 PM
It's not dragging this Black Man down, it's just waking me up to alot of cowards that live among us, I no theres more 2faced cowards that have'nt commented on this subject, I'm just showing this to alot of my associates and youngsters around my area that what's going on in the mind of some white people, it's a wake up call!!
george C
July 12th, 2009 - 5:33:05 PM
Ebil Whaite Honkey Mofo, What town are you referring to? I'd like to look into those statistics you gave. And what is your highest degree of education? Just curious.
george C
July 12th, 2009 - 7:01:50 PM
White devil, You say to the blacks, "nobody hates you..." yet you in closing tell them "fix your shit or go fuck yourselves and stay in your own area." Hmmm. Why am I confused?
george C
July 12th, 2009 - 7:21:13 PM
To Anonymous who ended his/her post, (leslie- typical, no refutation of fact, just hostility,, no wonder you are so sought out to move in next door… in croatia we would never allow what the US lets you do to ruin things.. we would solve this) Read this link below... http://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=556267773&ref=profile#/note.php?note_id=84202219503
george C
July 12th, 2009 - 7:51:37 PM
Cyrus (if you're still here), I highly recommend that you take some sociology classes at your local community college. You can try your theories about certain people being "enablers" out on your professors and classmates there. If you're concerned about there being too many people of color who would disagree with you at your local CC then choose the whitest one nearest you or spring for the extra $$ at your nearest university or private college.
white devil
July 13th, 2009 - 8:51:43 PM
@ 'newcomer'- I agree that there ARE in fact representatives of each of the three groups you delineate that have posted in this thread... I disagree that your three groups are exhaustive of all posts though, as there is at least a FOURTH group- those in the fourth group are those who are of modest means, from blue-collar communities, who regularly and constantly encounter a huge black / white double standard.. that double-standard is all over this thread. Black americans as a group tend to hold no TRACE of collective guilt, or for that matter concern, let alone responsibility for the actions of blacks who commit tremendous wrong-doing against other RACES.. they are indignant almost without exception if anyone mentions the racial aspect of american crime, or their populations situation, which has ACTUALLY gotten 100x worse since the advent of the civil rights movement as it gave free reign to BAD BEHAVIOR, and actually punished the victims of racial bad behavior, as long as the offender was black- their communities behavior is by any measure the worst of any population group in the USA and it mirrors that of african populations elsewhere... that is not hate, its fact and nothing changes that.. While blacks almost to a person (bill cosby = an exception), will vehemently protest that it is unfair and certainly 'racist' to mention black attacks/shootings/hate crimes/destroyed neighborhoods, they will, almost to a person, HAPPILY and without any reservation, loudly/indignantly riot and engage and protest if they percieve, EVEN ILLOGICALLY, that a white person has wronged another black person.. so the reality for a lot of whites not insulated by money from black communities, is that blacks routinely and with no apology expect whites to take responsibility for any percieved INSULT to a black and will almost always jump to cite this as proof of whites COMMUNAL unfairness to them, But the same blacks will virtually NEVER hold themselves to the same standards- A complaint cited in this case, and probably the only likely to have actually occurred as reported was that a white woman asked ''WHAT ARE ALL THESE BLACK KIDS DOING HERE?"..tune in to a black radio show for 10 minutes in any major urban area...any show targeted at blacks with black radio personalities- within that 10 minutes you will hear 'white boy' / 'white girl', or in the case of the Jamie Foxx show,, 'WHITE BITCH' (reference miley cirus) at least once.. all their shows have strong racial components, and if you live in a urban area around black populations, you will hear people referred to racially by blacks constantly.. even toward other light skinned blacks... So, as said, I hate no one.. to hate intrinsically means that whether you are present or not, I woudl still hate, as I have a fierce implacable dislike that will not be influenced by proximity.. I simply am tired of the ignorance, racial inflamation, and bad behavior of actual black people I encounter.. not folks I do not know or are distantly located.. Unless blacks want to accept the SAME responsibility for any percieved slight that any black offers to a white person.. anywhere.. then I do not want to hear about nonsense like this that is clearly half-a-story being turned into a racial matter to the delight of the same blacks whos own communites (almost all of which were once white neighborhoods before the black behavior problems caused all others the flee the area for their kids safety.. Unless you are willing to move your kids into a very affordable black HARLEM, or the Philly, Baltimore, D.C. ''HOODS'', which all offer housing priced at less than a 1/4 of surrounding white towns/locales, then you are simply a feel-good ohony, who wants to be 'liked'. If you claim that their is no behavior problem/differential,...put your kids at risk in these areas.. they will not last long, and their fate will be many times worse than this manifactured 'pool' nonsense..but I will at least then listen to your idealogy, although its devoid of experience. until blacks accept collective responsibility the way most of them expect whites to do, AND accept that in 2009 MOST BLACK PROBLEMS ARE ROOTED IN A REACTION TO BLACK COMMUNITIES STANDARDS OF BEHAVIOR, not the color of their skin, most everyone else is full-on sick of their protesting now.. PROTESTING for OTHERS to do sopmething is the easy part.. blacks won that battle decades ago, and a lot of whites supported in.. NOW the responsibility that goes along with that is ON THEM to behave and develop as a group that stands as equals... blacks are stuck in a protest spiral, as that is the easy way to dodge the real work they have to do for their own betterment and acceptance.
MH
July 15th, 2009 - 10:28:36 PM
Wow just wow, I can't believe the comments I am reading. I am an American Indian/Native American with a tiny bit of English in me or what you wish to call it. We all experience racism, discrimination, prejudice etc. Reading this forum shames me as we are all Americans, we need no conflict over opinions, there's enough conflict in our world and in our beloved United States. Not all wanted to come here, none of us wanted to be slaves and not only were it the African Americans that were once enslaved in this country. Americans we need to stand up and hold our heads high, rich or poor, every race. Let me tell you a story about the little boy who went to an all African American school. This boy who was diagnosed with ADHD, went to a public school k-3, an all white school. Then one day his mother received a call from the Principal who told this mother her boy was unruly and he should be put on medications or he will be transferred out, the mother refused the medications and the school transferred the boy out. The boy was shipped to an all African American school because they were equipped (as the old school's Principal said) to deal with these type of children. The boy is shy at first, starts to open up to his teachers who are also African Americans. The boys grades are brought up and behavior is improved, he is now an honor roll student. Now let me shed some light of the story, the boy is a mixed American Indian and Russian but he is dark skinned child, his mother is an albino American Indian and his father is Russian American. The white school treated him as an outcast, even went to lengths to ask me if he was adopted, because I was white skinned as well as his father. The African American school welcomed him with open arms and helped him to soar beyond that crappy education he was getting here in the white school. You see we all experience racism in our lives, it's best not to act and to just hold your head up high and watch the better outcome poke it's head. Now brings me to make one statement only on this whole pool story. Why did these children and the parents who overheard this racist spewing on their visit, not say something about it then, the day it happened? I would have at least told a worker of the club or of the Day camp what I overheard, and only taken this course of action that is going on now with the media and laws, if there was nothing done about it that day and if I were the Camp leader I would have marched in the club's offices and demanded I be refunded that very same day the children and parents over head these comments, not a week later.
Crystal
July 16th, 2009 - 4:47:39 AM
I'm an American living in France and I happen to have grown up near Huntington Valley. Just so you all know, this story is being covered INTERNATIONALLY and it has been reported on the news here in Paris repeatedly as an example of present-day American racism.
Crystal
July 16th, 2009 - 4:59:21 AM
to white devil: As an African American and as a social scientist, I just have to say that you're completely wrong about something: the majority of black Americans are NOT stuck in what you call a "protest cycle" - but I will agree with you that many of the talking-heads we see on TV, and many of the most visible blacks in the media - are indeed stuck in a cycle of protest. However, what most white people don't understand is that if you actually talk to Black Americans about their views of society, their identity and how they think their communities can be improved, most of them focus on both social factors AND personal/collective responsibility. Now I don't blame you for not knowing this - because in the public sphere, most of what you hear and see are Black Americans who are defensive about race and afraid of airing "dirty laundry" by criticizing members of their own group. But what I want you to understand is that black people are not the caricature you paint in your post, or the caricature that we often see on tv. Many of these folks are also blue collar, hard working and are savvy about social issues and know the importance of responsibility. Many, many black Americans are involved in efforts to help their own communities, to revitalize their neighborhoods, to try and fill the gap left by a lack of social services, quality education and public safety in urban communities. That you don't know any of these people is probably due to your social isolation and lack of interaction with black social activists, as well as with middle class/highly educated blacks , but that doesn't negate their existence. We are out here, doing what we can to give back.
Pierre
July 16th, 2009 - 9:09:15 AM
This story seems fishy to me. Can someone see what the maximum LEGAL number of people that pool can hold? Could it have been a situation where the pool staff realized they overbooked the pool, kneejerked and cancelled the group's bookings, then emotions took over and BAM "they kicked us out because they are racist". The whole story is full of emotion and logical fallacies such as "some members left - therefore they kicked out because they are racist". Seriously, if i was chillin' poolside and all of a sudden SIXTY FIVE WHITE teenagers showed up. I'd pack up my stuff and come back tomorrow too. -- yeah that's right, because they are white.
Cypriot
July 16th, 2009 - 3:25:23 PM
Crystal, a black man walked into my local convenience store today (after urinating on the sidewalk) and started screaming that the store was a "piece of shit" for not carrying Magnum condoms. He said, "How's a brutha sposed to get his fuck-on wit out muhfukin Magnum?" There were three children in the store at the time. True story..."aint choo aint got no mufukin MAGnum!!! and shit?"
Atavales
July 20th, 2009 - 12:46:18 PM
I side with the members of the PRIVATE swim club. The manager did wrong by selling a membership (whatever the terms were) to summer camp group, thinking it would not disturb the members. As a member of a private swim club as well as a minority, I know for sure that I do not want a bunch of kids running around, screaming and changing the atmosphere of the club I belong. If that happens, I want out. In addition, and here many of you know I am not lying: inner city kids tend to be roudy, noiser, and louder. Of course, there are exceptions, but in general, our inner city kids tend to act that way. Is is their fault? Of course not, but the enviroment that surrounds them. Now I do have a question for the director of the camp? Why did she go to this particular swim club? Why did not she go to the swim club in Chester City, the one in Memorial park? It seems to me that all this was intended to make a statement. Also, to those who keep talking about our president being BLACK: let's no forget that his mother was white and that his white grandparents raised him. Lastly, is this country racism is present in all race groups: Blacks, Whites, Chinese, Hispanic, Italian, Latinos, and so forth.
IBLACK
July 23rd, 2009 - 10:57:12 AM
For all who KNOW this was about race, I agree but at this point F#CKEM and their pool, Tyler Perry is sending them all to DISNEY. Keep your all white pool and drown in it. LOL!
sick of kne-gurs
July 24th, 2009 - 4:57:37 PM
stay in your ghetto coons.. you can stop fighting one antoher, you get giddy when you think their is a white you can blame.. stop shooting your own neighborhood and take henry gates back to the ghetto with you,.. since for some reason he chose to live in all-white cambridge.. he needs to get to know how the brothas DO,, then he no compliany so mcuh on whitey no more..(yeah right)
newcomer
July 25th, 2009 - 1:34:32 AM
White devil I don't know if you're still here. I had to take a break from this site and all of my time that this posting was taking from me. I greatly appreciate Crystal for breaking it down for you...what she said is REAL and TRUTH. I appreciate you for responding to me and I must honestly admit that I was initially shocked to see how well you are capable of defending your position, as I didn't gather that from your earlier posts. I must echo what Crystal said and tell you that your comments, your very broad generalizing about the black community is obviously indicative of the black socialization that you've had and that's unfortunate. I happen to be black (your comments make me assume that you didn't gather that) and from what I consider the black professional class. I hold a graduate degree and most of my black friends have college degrees or post graduate degrees. Both of my black parents and most of their friends were college educated so this is just how I grew up. I've only visited ghettos for brief stints to see some family members who "never made it out." So, true...I haven't had all the experiences that you have but as a socially aware black person in America I do know that I understand the situation. But again, I mirror Crystal's comments...not all black people are like what you've experienced and the media does a wonderful job of making people think that. Bill Cosby is not the first and only black person to advocate personal and communal responsibility for change. There are many who are striving for this. Where you are going terribly wrong is by not recognizing that white attitudes like yours are exactly what perpetuate the black situation. If you think the way you do about blacks and you're in a positionof power, let's say to employ or accept individuals into an academic program, who are you going to choose? Not the blacks! Even though there may be some positive, smart, capable blacks among the pool that you are selecting from. But you wouldn't consider it. This is why some affirmative action programs are needed. I mean truly this situation goes all the way back to slavery and no white person wants to admit that but it does. Blacks are not just inherently bad, incapable, irresponsible, violent, negative people! Although taken from your Africa comment I assume that you believe that. Try researching the ramifications of European colonization in Africa and you might better understand the picture. But back to the U.S., I say this not to put ALL the blame for black problems on white people...we do need to strive for change and self-empowerment. When we've tried that in the past (like the Black Panthers were doing) white society has viewed us as a threat and tried to take that down. I believe that most whites in power in America would rather see us grappling in the ghettos than moving on up to their same social status. Therefore many blacks in the ghettos where you live have simply lost hope! And stories like this one only bring up the pain of the past and exemplify to many why there is no reason to change ourselves when this society, that continues to view us as second-class or undesireable, isn't going to change! Again, I say NONE of this to justify the wrong-doing of this faction of the black community but to remind you to remember our history ("our" meaning yours and mine). History unlocks the secrets of the present and reveals the plight of the future. I'd be curious to know what happened in your history and why you are stuck living around "ghetto black-folk" cause you're white, you really don't have an excuse!
newcomer
July 25th, 2009 - 1:47:47 AM
@ Cypriot: Mental illness is a real problem that affects all racial groups. For every insane black person there are many sane and functioning black people. Just as for every insane white person there are a some sane whites. Get over it! PS. Most brotha's do prefer Magnums. It's a black thing.
Racist Rebel
October 9th, 2009 - 11:27:55 AM
I support them all the way. Keep the club for Whites Only. The niglets can go play in the sewer where they belong.
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